I have read the AAMOCAS website regarding osteopathic medicine but what is the actual advantage to obtaining a DO degree? As a physician wouldn't you always be like a salmon swimming upstream? Since you are going against the flow wouldn't you have to defend and prove you are capable again and again? Just asking so I can make an informed decision on MD or DO. Thanks!! This website has been a great source of encouragement to me!! :wave:

Just a reminder that this forum is for medical students only. General questions should be posted on the premedical or general board, where everyone will be able to see them and respond.

MD's and DO's get the same training and the same priviliges. DO's also get training in osteopathic manipulation, and tend to focus more on treating the patient as a whole rather than just the disease. Although, to give allopathic schools credit, a lot more of them are moving towards patient centered medicine. In most of the primary care fields (peds, FP, IM, OBGYN) I believe that DO's are seen as equal to MD's, but I have heard of DO's facing discrimination of the type you talked about in fields such as surgery, ortho, etc. I think this is because DO schools tend to accept more non-traditional applicants and are more flexible, and look beyond the scores a bit more, so their average gpas and mcats aren't as high. This makes some people believe that DO students aren't as capable.

Research it some more, apply to both types of schools, talk to DO's and MD's. You have lots of time to decide.

I personally plan to apply to both MD and DO schools, to me it's all the same, your a doctor.

Here in the south where I live you see equal MD and DO physicians, I'm not sure how it is everywhere else though.

Some people though have no clue what a DO is. My MIL actually thought that DO meant "Drop Out" I kid you not.....lol And she would never see a DO because she didn't think they were "real doctors".

So yes, there is some prejudice but anymore that is less and less.

SDN is a good site and they have a site for pre-med and a DO and MD discussion forumns (www.studentdoctor.net I think is what it is....someone correct me if Im wrong).

Marilyn

I'm a DO so I can offer perspective. I chose the DO field not because I couldn't get into an MD school but rather because I liked the holistic approach and school/learning environment of my school. I went to PCOM. However, it is true that many DO students are simply there because they didn't get into or were wait listed to an MD school. So I think that is where that bad press is from.

I don't run into too many primary care MD's who have any prejudices against DO's. In fact, DO's are a resource to them due to the manipulation aspect. And I've also known MD's who have worked with DO's who think the best surgeon, best interventional radiologist, best whatever was a DO. Yet, it is true that no matter how good your grades are and recs are and all else being equal, if you and an MD applicant were applying to the same Harvard fellowship, chances are the MD will get it. Fields such as CT surgery, ophthalmology, neurosurgery also are difficult to obtain if you are looking into an allopathic program. But there are osteopathic programs of the equivalent.

The decision comes down to whether you feel the additional training of manipulation and the holistic approach is enough for you to make your decision...I would strongly recommend finding a DO that does manipulation and see what it is all about. Most of the DO schools will require recommnedations from a DO. Once I found out about DO schools in undergrad I went to a DO and shadowed him. I was impressed and my mind was made up.

Good luck.

I was wondering if anyone knew any Emergency Medicine DO's? If so, do they get discriminated against because they are DO rather than MD?

Thank you all for your responses to my question. Especially Kate, DO . I feel drawn to the DO philosophy because it appears to be (don't take this wrong MD's) more humane, more sensitive to the needs of the people we will be helping, and more in line with my beliefs of what medicine should be in general. After all, we are human and can only do so much.

However, I am misunderstanding the word holistic, though. Are they referring to the "whole" person or are they referring to herbal remedies, and folk medicine, etc.?

I'm still new to all this, please excuse the seemingly endless questions!!!

I am interested in Osteopathic medicine, also. I am also very interested in Psychiatry, though. I would love to be a Psychiatrist. I don't think there are any D.O. Psych's out there. I just think it would be so cool to learn the Manipulation.

Hi! i found your discussions very interesting, nd would like to add my own experience. As an RN working on a med/surg unit, I was friends with the Chief Resident, who was mentoring a medical student. I happened to be sitting there, when they launched into a discussion about another medical student (female), who was doing the same rotation, but was from an osteopathic school. They very disparaging of this very capable young lady, snickering back and forth about the school that she was from, and I have to tell you, I was beyond appalled. Now that I am considering medical school myself, I am drawn to the philosophy of the osteopathic schools, and yet...this experience is forever lodged in my memory as to just how nasty the politics of medicine can be!

Hello again! I have been surfing the web for all the info I could find on Osteopathic doctors/ medicine. I came across a website called quackwatch.org. It has information about osteopathy that you may want to check out before you devote yourself to a career in osteopathy. It was very enlightening to me and really made me think. :yes:

MD2004,
We have 3 DO EM physicians at our hospital out of about 6, 2 females, 1 male, and I have never heard any negative comments or discrimination from anyone about them being osteopathic ever. Although at teaching hospitals this may happen a bit more because of the competitive environment and maybe teaching hospitals that mostly have mds.

There are tons of DOs in EM and all of the primary care fields. There are also DO psychiatrists and every other specialty out there. The tough specialties for DOs to get into (neurosurg, ophtho, derm) are also difficult for MDs to get into...they're just generally competitive.

It is true that for some residency programs a DO will automatically be at a disadvantage, but this doesn't apply to most programs. I figure that any program that truly is biased against DOs isn't somewhere I'd want to be anyways, so it really doesn't bother me.

There is some, but not tons, of bias against DOs...most of it exists out of ignorance of the profession. I haven't talked to a DO that has faced discrimination in the past 20 years, but I'm also in a part of the country that has quite a few.

I'm another one of those who chose the DO route. I'm receiving an excellent education and have never second-guessed my decision. :goodvibes:

Thanks for the replies! It helps alot to get as much info. as possible, THE GOOD AND THE BAD, before making such a big decision.

Lots of EM DOs here in Toledo,Ohio! I work in the hospital where the residencies are done and they are just as prevalent as MDs. There is IM, EM, gen surg,OBGYN,and FP.

I went to that quackwatch.com site. It was interesting. I wonder why that guy dislikes D.O.s so much. Maybe he is jealous and wishes he was one. hehehe
He has a very strong disposition against them. Interesting that he screens all of the responses. I also was wondering how in the heck he has the time and energy as a doctor to work on that. Must be nice to have all that time to BS. I am jealous. I need more hours in my day. :rolleyes:

I wondered where he got the time too. I found it odd that many of the replies where from DO's. They all seemed to value their medical education but found some of the ideas they conveyed to be too radical.

Thanks for your input.

Thanks PremedRN, MelissaGray, and CoolMommy for your replies! I'm still deciding which route I want to go and emergency medicine is the only specialty I've been exposed to that I really like.

I also saw the interesting comments on quackwatch and was appalled by the DO from Texas. I understand being proud of who you are and what you believe in but I don't believe in trying to force your own ideals on someone else just because you think you are right and they are wrong. Whew!

Any California EM docs? MD or DO?

HI, I am currently a third year DO student in the throws of rotations. I am from Alaska where DO's are few. When I rotated there, I found an overwhelming positive response to me in the fact that I know how to do manipulation. I rotated with an MD and I did some kind of hand on medicine to almost every patient sometimes with very dramatic results. I think the MD world now is realizing some of its shortcomings and are beginning to recognize the value of other forms of medical therapy. Why else is homeopathy so popular these days? Because people are tired of taking pills and are looking elsewhere. Today's environment is espeically DO friendly and I have no doubt that I will be able to do whatever specialty I want. I am very happy with my osteopathic choice and find that manipulative therapy is a powerful adjuct to traditional allopathic therapies. Everyone who teaches at my school is a DO and they range include all specialties ER, Cardiology, Cardiac surgery, Orthpedics, OB, Neuro, Psych, FP, etc. Any specialty if possible if you want it bad enough. Hope that helps clear up any questions. thanks

I'm definitely not a fan of the MD vs DO thing but I feel compelled to voice my opinion on the subject. I am an MSIII from an Osteopathic medical school and I would strongly encourage anyone who has the option of MD or DO to chose MD (I am strictly speaking of American MD programs)unless you are truly interested in practicing OMM (or OMT as some people call it). I am not DO bashing so please don't take this the wrong way, I just want all sides and all opinions shared for those making these hugely important decisions.

The following are my personal opinions and experiences, as well as those of the many other MD's and DO's I have spoken with (my husband is an MD). I by no means intend on offending anyone from either side...

I am in an area where there are a ton of DO's and am currently doing rotations where both MD's and DO's work together in relative harmony. But to be honest even here there are still disadvantages to being a DO. I do believe that DO's and MD's are equal in all senses of the word, so don't get me wrong... but there are still many people who do not. As a DO you will have to work harder to get the same spots as your MD counterparts, you will have to CONSTANTLY explain who/what you are and what EXACTLY it is that you do, you'll have to deal with the idiots that believe you are 'inferior', and in my opinion could be getting a better education at an allopathic school (this is a generalization, of course, and I feel is mainly because they have been around longer, have more money coming in from research and the such, and are affiliated with better hospitals).

Most DO's do not practice OMM/OMT and therefore essentially are 'the same' as MDs so why put up w/ all the hassle if you don't have to? And all the fluffy osteopathic philosophy talk is nonsense... "Osteopathy treats the whole person"... "we help the body heal itself"... "Mind, body and spirit"... what good doctor doesn't do all this, MD or DO? I can say from first hand experience (myself being in an osteopathic school and my husband having gone through an allopathic program) that other then the actual OMM class (which is mainly learning techniques, not so much 'philosophy') there was absolultely no difference in the "philosophy" behind the medical education that he and I received.

So why deal with all the extra hassles? I don't think you should! By all means, if you don't get into an American MD school, or the DO school is closer to family/cheaper, or for some other reason is a better option for you then go for it! We will all be doctors... and we will all be as great as we push ourselves to be, but if you have the choice make your life easier.

My last piece of advice is to find a DO or an osteopathic student that you can truly trust to be honest and share their experiences with you. If you don't know anyone personally ask around and see if there's anyone you know who knows someone. I think this is VERY important! This is a very touchy subject and you'd be hard pressed to find many people from the osteopathic side to promote the MD route for fear of continuing the bias. We'd all like to believe that we've made the best choices for ourselves so we naturally do what we can to defend our choices (again, just my opinion). A person who cares about what is best for you personally will be brutally honest and will present all the pros and cons (leaving nothing out).

If you have any questions and want a brutally honest opinion please do not hesitate to PM me.
All the best to those of you embarking on this crazy yet amazing journey! :grouphug:

Pea
Sorry if this is going a little off the topic for this thread, but I'm curious why you chose the DO option instead of MD. I still have some time, but you're right a person should make an informed decision.
Thanks.
Nani

I agree with Pea.

There is a difference in attitude where I work. As a woman, of color, I already have 2 things to "overcome." Being a graduate of a good medical school, and an MD, helps "make-up" these "lost points." Already there's so much to deal with. If you have the choice, I would certainly choose a good allopathic medical school over any "alternative."

I re-read my post, and realize that it sounds very...negative. I'm trying to be honest, and this is what *my* experience has been. Take it (only) for what it's worth.

Also, I agree that MDs "treat the entire person" as much as DOs. To believe that only DOs (or nurses, or mommies, etc) care about the "total person" is incorrect. Doctors care about patients as much as nurses...daddys care as much as mommies about their children...and MDs care as much about holistic medicine and the entire person on as many occasions as DOs.

To imply that "if you care about the entire person" you'd be better suited for DO school...is very, very misleading.

As a woman of color, I have to agree about already having "2 strikes" against you. However,my reason for choosing MD over DO besides the obvious fact that there aren't any DO schools in the area, is that I plan to work in academia. So as far as I'm concerned, I not only "have" to the MD route, I'd better attend a "top school" to boot!

OTOH, the reason I LOVE the DO route is because the people that tend to go DO seem so much more pleasant than the typical MD student.

The best decision is made after research. Anyone considering a DO school should do their homework about what being a DO offers that is different than an MD.
A DO school is definately not the best platform for academia although they do have academia at DO schools too.
Also, keep an open mind about what you think you might want to specialize in...thinking that you want to be an FP and then finding out during clinical years that you want to subspecialize in pediatric interventional cardiology and you are from a DO school...well, good luck then.
But on the other hand, any primary care field, I believe a DO school offers the best avenue because of the aspect of manipulation that is taught. Patients and other doctors love the fact that a lot of times you can make them feel so much better with such a hands on approach. The caveat and argument that is waged against manipulation is that the patient is not really "cured", he has to keep coming back again and again to be manipulated. But thus is the nature of many chronic processes. Again, the best advice I think is to observe and work with a DO if you are seriously considering DO school. If I were part of an admissions committee, I'd definately prefer to see potential students who know what is to be a DO.