Hi Ladies,

Please share your wisdom, experience and thoughts on this issue...

Our thrid-grader asked me what sex meant about 4 weeks ago. Thinking that he is still very much of a little boy (which he is... he is very innocent and somewhat shielded), we decided that it was not yet time for the big talk. So instead, I had him get his dictionary and we looked up the word and then discussed it for a short little bit... including what it means when people say someone is "sexy" (he asked), keeping it clean and relating it to gender. We thought we had sent that fuzzy beast back into hibernation for a bit longer... until at least 4th grade? please?

... Ha... not so fast, yesterday going through school papers (which we always do together), I found a folded piece of paper in his backpack. As I opened and read its contents, my little guy was visibly uncomfortable, saying... "oh mom, that's nothing..." The paper had a list of names (of his classmates) and then the following words... , "kiss", "marriage", "sex", "pregnant", "baby"... :banghead:

I tried to play it cool, and being very careful not to sound in any way negative, bad, mean, threatening, angry, told him that we will definitely discuss all of those things... But we had to do it a bit later since we had a lot of homework that we needed to get done last night... which was partly true, but the whole truth is... mommy needed to talk this over with daddy, wrap her head around this and figure out a strategy, an approach... and quite frankly, time to get over her shock! Did I mention that we are in the 3rd grade? These are 8-year-olds (and some barely 9-y.-o.s) we're talking about? :banghead:

Hi Sweet,

I will preface this by telling you that I don't have any easy answers for you...but in my humble experience, no matter how shielded your child may be at home, it's not too early to be having the "talk" by grade 3. I don't know anything about the school your child is in, but I strongly suspect it wouldn't matter....kids of that age are curious about it! And if they don't get the straight goods from you (along with your values and beliefs around it), they'll get the info from their peers, TV, societal messages, etc...whether accurate or not.
We had the talk with our first son when he was only five and a half. Yes, in kindergarten!! :laughing:
So, I don't think it's wrong of you to talk to him about it even if he seems too young. I think this kind of issue is way harder on mommies and daddies than it is on the kids!

I tried to search medline on this topic - very difficult to find anything! Everything is about adolescent discussions. I read that your child is at risk of having sex early if he is a preadolescent and is having problems with the police. I am kind of doubting that for your situation

Here is the best science I could find.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2248/is_n129_v33/ai_20740156

my son was curious about "where babies come from" from age 4 (he wasn't in preschool or anything). I found a great book that did the whole egg, sperm,conception and pregnancy thing from fuzzy baby chicks to "people who love each other". It was matter of fact and not sensational and mostly real pictures of families, pregnant women,etc (nothing graphic!). I don't remember the title, but bet you could find it on amazon.

He also came home one time (third grade maybe) and asked "why do men pee in women to make babies?" so there had been some talk at school! Again husb and I both talked with him in a matter of fact way. Someone had suggested to me that you try to let your child set the pace for these discussions, so I would ask if he wanted to know anything more before giving more in depth information. Usually he has only wanted one question answered at a time.

be grateful for the clean words...my son just transitioned from an episcopal school to a private non-christian school and learned THREE curse words in his first month there(S&^%,F%$#, and A@#$#@!). He's ten, but I wish it hadn't happened yet.

Your son sounds delightful to me, probably because he reminds me of my kidlet, who has had a crush on the same girl since kinder garden, but is not precocious in an inappropriate sexual way.

8 seems to be the magic age, or at least it was for all 3 of ours. (I, on the other hand, did not find out what sex was until I was 14!!!!)

On the other hand, you can actually do a kid a disservice by waiting too long. We were of course very reluctant to discuss it with our first, but he actually embarrassed himself (and us) trying to find out the information on his own, at a large family party, no less. Kids will actually give misinformation to naive kids on purpose, just to be funny.

Some funny stories: We finally explained it to #1 Son, and when we finished, he said "I don't think I will ever get married or do that." I said, "But what if I want to be a grandma?" and he said, "Well, if you don't tell A___ and E____ (younger sibs) about this, maybe they will have grandchildren for you."

We gave #2 Son a copy of "Where did I Come From?" when someone at day camp spilled the beans. He read the whole thing, handed it back, and said "Yup, that's pretty much what I thought." and that was the end of the discussion. No questions.

Baby Daughter had already found out about menstruation and ovulation, etc from her GIRL SCOUT HANDBOOK by the time they had "the talk" about that at school. Who knew? That stuff wasn't in MY Girl Scout Handbook.

The 2 mommies and 2 daddies thing came up early for us, because we have a number of gay parents (all women) whose kids attend our community centre's swimming pool, park, etc. My kids haven't asked too much about it, it's more of a "oh, Luke has two mommies" observation, and off they go with whatever they are doing.
I agree with you Path, about the issue not really being a private school versus public school thing. Some of the wildest kids I knew as an adolescent and tween were from private school. And some of the naivest, most sheltered girls that went to nursing school with me went absolutely crazy once they left home and moved into the nurses' residence.

I'm currently pregnant with our second and our 4 year old asked me the other day, "How did the baby get in your belly?" I freaked and didn't know how to explain without being too graphic. I just told him that mommy and daddy love each other and wanted him to have a brother or sister.He said "yeah and you and daddy got married!" So I guess we'll have to finish that conversation later.

Thanks ladies for your support... just reading your words has made me feel much more at ease.

Hubby and I have decided to have *the talk* with our guy on Friday night (least busy night of the week for us)... keeping it simple and honest. It looks like the consensus here in the thread is that it would be a good idea at this point... We are hoping that it will come more easily than we think, since we are normally very open with our kids and we tend to be uber-communicators (for example, no one ever gets in trouble in our household... no chiding, no punishments... we just talk until we figure out what went wrong, how to fix it and how not to do it again... you get the picture... we've been called crazy, but it works like magic for us).

The thing I forgot to mention in my original post was that our guy is completely educated on the male and female anatomy. A museum we frequented in our previous hometown had a permanent exhibit about the human body... no cadavers, just pretty pictures and plastic models...

I'm nervous, but also excited... my little boy is growing up... I will report back after the discussion...

My feelings about public schools are no secret in this community but I completely agree with Path that private school wouldn't have prevented this . . . private schools aren't always virtuous panaceas.

The age is dead-on I know my mom talked to my sister and I in third grade and I clearly remember giggling on the playground in second grade with my girl-friends. Actually now thinking back our mom didn't really talk so much as leave a book on our bed with a note to ask questions if we wanted to :rotfl: chicken way out if you ask me and my sister and I still tease her about that now. It was basic mechanics but the funniest thing I remember about it is it had some line in there about "Sex feels very good and so does jumping rope but just like you can't jump rope all the time people do not have sex all the time . . . " :rotfl: So our family gets together for board games and dinner 1-2 times a month on Saturday nights and my sister and I about 10pm start fake yawning and telling mom and dad that we still have jump roping to do - which makes our husbands and mom laugh and dad blush. I never asked my mom about sex because the note clearly indicated she didn't want to so I had a great youth pastor with an awesome wife who would discuss anything and I also volunteered at a teens AIDS hotline and recieved quite an education that way - there was nothing left to the imagination by the time I was Sophmore in HS but really understod the importance of waiting for sex.

Our kiddo brought home a note last year (4th grade) from a little girl who wanted to "sleep" with him and wrote that he was her "boo" !! I told husband that he had to get on top of that talk right away and he did. He doesn't talk about sex with me but always asks me questions about relationships and girls which is just as important. I agree to give the mechanics and then let kiddo ask questions or guide you on how much he wants to know. Give yourself a pat on the back he's writing all the correct terms and not using any vulgar words - difficult to accomplish anymore!

Please, please, please tell your kids the "proper" terminology for male and female "parts". The day my daughter came home from 4th grade and casually mentioned a kid on the playground getting hit in the "balls" I almost had a fit. Of course, it was everything I could do to explain to her without bursting out laughing that "balls" was not the correct term for a young man's testicles. Of course, testicles later became tenicles but that's still better than balls. :yes:

ooooh yeah tenticles - My mom was teaching pre-school sunday school a few weeks ago and they were having a lesson about Noah and obedience. My mom decided it would be a great idea to go around and ask the kiddos which animal was their favorite and this kid (three years old) raised his hand and was waving it wildly and my mom called on him and he says "Miss Debbie! Miss Debbie! I LOVE octopuses!!" Thinking that was a creative choice my mom asks him why and he says because they have 8 testicles!!! If I had 8 testicles I would use them to tickle girls!" My mom about died trying not to laugh and told him they were tenticles and he gravely disagreed with her that they were indeed testicles his dad told him so :rotfl:

omg, that's hysterical!!!! I'll never look at an octopus the same way again!

My friend just had the "talk" with her daughter (almost 8)....Upon hearing the mechanics of sex, her daughter looked at her mom with disgust, and said, "Don't be ridiculous, Mom, people don't do that! I thought you'd tell me the truth!" and stomped off!! :rotfl:

I can recommend the book "Talking to your kids about Sex from Toddlers to Preteens" by Lauri Berkenkamp and Steven Atkins. The "talk" should be a converation you have many times with your child, providing information that is age-approriate. When my girls (ages 4.5 and 7)ask me about how a baby gets in the mommy's tummy, they are interested in the mechanics and I try to give them a straightforward answer. They're not ready for abstract concepts about birds and bees or the whole emotional aspect. It's just another thing they're trying to figure out, like why do airplanes stay in the air. But it's also important for them to know that it's okay to ask these questions and that they canget an honest answer. I think kids are a lot more tolerant. We know several same-sex couples with adopted children and to our kids it's no big deal. I just tell them that some women love women and some men love men and because they can't make their own babies they have to adopt. To our kids it's just another piece of information without any emotional baggage attached to it. Maybe this will all change when they get older and everything becomes "gross", but at least we're having a dialogue now.

I had a little anatomy book for children (yeah, I started my interest young!) and for the life of me, I couldn't figure out the purpose of the male scrotum. I asked my mom, and I remember I was in second or third grade and my sister, who is 18 months younger than I, was in the bathtub with me. I don't think my mom wanted to tell my sister at that time, but I kept bugging her. So, she told us that sex is what married people do, she told me the mechanics of it, and that it's also where babies come from... and I asked if I could watch!! I can only imagine what was going through her mind :rotfl: My dad still laughs at my reaction.

I haven't gone into detail about the "mechanics" of sex, this goes into that kind thing. What I told my daughter is that when a man and a women both finish college, they get married and to make a baby, they get really, really close to each other. The baby then grows in the Mom's uterus.

Now I'm kinda curious as to what other parents are telling thier kids, when you guys say you mention "mechanics' exactly what do you mean? And what age is giving details about the mechanics important? I'd kinda hate for my daugher to learn about "mechanics" they way I did. :laughing:

mechanics: Tab "A" goes into Slot "B" etc. Our son was given "mechanics" in 4th grade. We wanted to tell him before school did and his daddy handled mechanics - I seem to be fielding the relationship curiousities -

I just read the entire article (I had just glanced over it earlier) linked by Conflicted (thanks!) and found it to be very interesting and reassuring. Most of what I read in it seemed to be well-aligned with my own impressions, expectations, perceptions... One of the things the article points out, and several people have echoed the same idea here, is that this should be an ongoing discussion. Instinctively I have actually felt this all along, however I fell prey to the stereotype when I wrote the title of the thread... "The Talk"... I guess the reason I was so melodramatic about it at first was that this will be our first "sex" talk... Somehow I had envisioned many discussions about girlfriends, safe sex, respect, pleasure, satisfaction (emotional and physical) when he became old enough to think about actually having sex... but I was caught a little off guard here... Although now it seems so silly that I was somehow expecting him to live in a total vacuum until he was at least half-way through his teens... how silly am I?

Incidentally, when I was pregnant with our second, our big guy wasn't too curious about the mechanics of how the baby got in there... especially since he knew the baby started out as just a tiny cell that had been in mommy's belly all along, just not growing yet (I didn't lie too badly )... but as I expanded horizontally... he became increasingly concerned (and even frightened) about how the "huge baby" would "burst through the belly" :wave: Btw, the "tentacles" made my tea come out of my nostrils... that was funny! (Note to self: don't drink and read mommd threads.)

In response to pathdr2b's post - I told my kids about the mechanics short and to the point, without using any funny names for body parts. That's all they want to know at their age anyway. But I was more specific than "getting real close" (which is about as much information as I ever received from my parents). And they seem to have processed the information, because they will ask me follow-up questions out of the blue sometimes, taking me by surprise as I'm driving along with them in the car.

I'll be honest, I don't know how comfortable I am with the "penis goes into vagina" conversation with a kid in elementary school.I mean I can just imagne the follow up questions to this "can the man put his penis anywhere else, and why Mommy"? I mean like what would I say to that?!?!?!?! :boggled:

Maybe I'll have the nerve to add more details next year when she's in middle school.

You probably won't have to. Her classmates are probably already filling in the details if she's anywhere past age 10 or so.

So as I'm reading this (there's no time like the present, right?) I ask her "do you know HOW people have sex". She says, "No, but I'll take a guess at it. It's when two people get naked". Then I say, "you don't have to be naked to have sex". She gets a puzzled look on her face. Then I say, "are kids at you kids talking about sex?" And she says No,... then I say "well what about that balls comment from a few months ago and that Britney/Justin comments". She says "well tenicles are not the same thing and nobody cares about Britney and Justin anymore".


So, I've decided to try to beat the peers to the punch and pull out the 'ol anatomy book when we get back from seeing the Pursuit of Happiness.

Still I can't help thinking how crazy it was that I went a LOOOOOONG time before knowing that the penis actually goes INTO a vagina (next to seemed logical for a while). And I can't imagine what a kids version of THAT idea would be. You know now that I think about it, there's this old saying in my family which says that women can get pregnant by just lying naked next to a man. Still, SOMEONE should have cleared that up for me somewhere along the way! :laughing:

Here is the report... fresh from the trenches... Warning: Super-long post!

Yesterday I had explored a bunch of books (online) and was not sure how I felt about any of them. So my husband had offered to check out a couple of the top choices at the local bookstore on his way home and if he thought any of them would be helpful he'd pick up a copy... He showed up with a copy of "Where Did I Come From?" by Peter Mayle. He thought it was the best of the bunch and I reviewed it while he played with the boys. It is a very good book and perfect for the 8-10 year-old group (it would work for the precocious 6-7 year-olds and even 10-12 year olds probably). It has illustrations which are very clean and nicely done. It also has a dash of humor. It reviews the basic anatomy that distinguishes the sexes, giving everything proper names (breasts, penis, vagina), then moves on to "Making Love" (as the act of making a baby, the context is... baby-making after all). There were 2 things that were a bit of a disappointment, the phrase "having sex" was not mentioned as another way of describing making love... but that's where the parents can pitch in... more importantly, the description of the "making love" act could have been shorter (no need to wax on too long about how it tingles and tickles for this age group)...

So here's how we went about it... We put our younger son in front of the TV (thankfully that doesn't happen too often), then asked our older one to join us on the living room couch. I pulled out the paper I had found in his backpack. He acted a bit embarrassed and mumbled that it was nothing, so at first we addressed the issue of embarrassment... making sure that he understood that there was *nothing* that he should feel uncomfortable telling us or avoid discussing with us... Once everyone was feeling/acting comfortable I brought up his question of a month ago about what "sex" means. He said that the kids at school had been saying that it was a bad word, but he had told them it was just the gender of a person as he had read in his dictionary. So I asked him to get the "big" dictionary and we read the definitions together which referred us to "sexual intercourse" and we read the definition of that too. I explained to him that the reason I had not told him that last definition was because I wasn't sure he was big enough to understand a month ago and that was the same reason *his* dictionary did not have that last definition. Then we pulled out the Mayle book and asked him to read it out loud for all of us. Whenever we wanted to clarify a point, to add something or to see if he was processing things OK we would stop and talk for a few minutes. One of the things that I liked best about that book was that it had absolutely *no* value judgements or morality mixed in (it simply stuck to the basic facts), which allowed us to have a nice discussion about our own values, expectations, moral principles. We talked about the importance of growing up, getting a good education, learning about the world and people, etc. before choosing a wife and deciding to have children. We drove home the point that making love was something that children were not designed to do, it was something reserved for adults. We briefly touched on some of the dangers of having sex before being mature enough or prepared enough... even for adults (in very general terms - disease, unplanned babies). Then we talked for a while about the fact that we will periodically revisit these issues as he gets older and understands more things... the book had pointed out that men and women have hair around their genitalia, and he had wondered why he didn't have hair... so we referred back to this as an example of the things we will discuss as they come up, e.g. changes in his body, voice, girlfriends, feelings, etc. At the end we emphatically stressed the point that he should *always* feel comfortable to talk to us about *any*thing and that whenever questions came up at school he should discuss them with us. Lastly, we asked him not to try to educate any of his friends and classmates, explaining to him that just as it was important for our family to have our own discussion, all of his friends' families should have the chance to do the same, and if his friends make silly guesses or say things like "sex is a dirty word"... he should simply pay no attention.

He asked us a few questions as we read and talked. At the end, once the whole "sex" thing was demystified and not really that interesting any more, he was *really* curious about the genetics of the baby-making business. It surprised us that he had remembered what we had told him almost 4 years ago when I was pregnant with his brother. He said, "So mom, you only told me part of the story... only *part* of the baby was inside you the whole time, the other part... sperm (a new word he had just learned ) had to come from dad. But why is that so, what does it do?" This started a pretty in-depth conversation. We ended up pulling out an old, musty freshman biology textbook (from 14 years ago!!! yes, mommy has a hard time parting with her books ) and went through the whole fertilization section, as well as mitosis (to explain growth)... lots of pretty, colorful micrographs and illustrations... he was absolutely fascinated with the idea of DNA and thought chromosomes are the coolest thing! :goodvibes:

To Path: Don't be worried... it will be better than you think. And once you present the information as matter of fact, as in the Mayle book (penises are designed to go into vaginas), I doubt she would try to find other uses for either of the organs. Those issues can be addressed in a few years...

It was such a wonderful feeling... being completely honest and so very close with your child, realizing that your relationship has developed to a new depth, knowing that your child lives in a comfortable world where his/her parents are always the most safe, friendly and trustworthy place to turn for anything and everything...

Did I mention how much I love being a mom? :cloud9:

Sweet - What an awesome job! You get the mommy gold-star for the day. :goodvibes: Path - I hope yours goes well too. I'm confident you'll do great also. :grouphug: While ours continues to be an ongoing conversation at home I felt better knowing we beat school to the punch. I'm astounded how in the course of a year they change though. He no longer seems to have curiousities of the "how" but has moved on to more abstract "why" questions specifically pertaining to why girls do or say what they do and relationships. I've shared some of this with other mommd members in conversation and quite frankly I'm finding it to be more important than the mechanics as we approach 6th grade. I want to say that they are to young to be worrying about these things but OTOH I remember my sister and I pursuing "crushes" and wanting to "go" with boys (6th grade version of going steady minus actual dates) :rolleyes: . I think there is a merciful reprieve between 3rd-5th grade.

Thanks for the info. I have to tell you that for some probably sexist reason I think my trepidation about discussing this with my daughter stems from the fact that she is a girl. I dunno, I think it would be easier with boys for some reason. :yes:

I second the vote for "Where Did I Come From?" That's the one we used and it worked out very well.

This is really very true. My mother gave me molecular-level-only information when I was 10 -- I was an EASY TARGET when I transferred to a public school a few years later.

My husband's parents just left books in his bedroom. He's a very private person, and I suspect he was as a child as well. He's very grateful that they did it that way, and I wish mine had as well. If it suits the personalities of our (as yet hypothetical) children, we're definitely going with that.

Sorry for the double-post, but I forgot to say: Sweet, that's awesome! I'm very impressed

And very cool about the genetics component. Maybe you're raising a future scientist/doctor.

I can't remember exactly when this first came up with my kids, but it did about a couple of years ago, when my son was 8 and daughter 6. About a year before, a colleague had discussed it with her 7yo daughter, who learned at private school that sex is when a man and woman 'rub together.' I went to the library and there were several books to choose from and I selected a couple that were for very young kids. they really were not all that interested but we read them like stories. since my son is now 10, and will start middle school next year, I decided to bring it up again, for all the reasons you've mentioned, wanting the information to come from home. We talked about it at the dinner table. I'll look into the books you've mentioned.

Not sure I can add much since I don't have my own kids yet. But I do know that when I was a kid, my parents had to teach me in first grade when several sixth graders asked me if I knew what "****" meant. Several years later, when puberty was coming up, they gave me a book designed for kids my age of both genders. When my younger brother approached puberty, I had no desire to share this information with "my little boy". My parents wanted to give him my book and I absolutely refused. First of all, I wasn't ready to part with it yet. And, more importantly, I was freaked out by the thought of him reading _my_ book and losing his innocence. I was totally fine with my parents getting him his own copy so it wouldn't feel like he was getting his info from me.
So my advice is be honest with all of your kids, but, at least when they're old enough for the conversation to seem more personally relevant, keep it separate. While I didn't mind sharing this info when we were young enough to run around the apartment naked, it was incredibly humiliating when I was in my early teens.

My oldest son (almost 9) just started asking questions about sex. A couple of weeks ago he said "having sex is when you hug someone" and I said it is kind of like hugging but when you are naked. And you ONLY do it when you are married! And this how a baby is made. Well he just laughed out loud at that. He said "so you and dad did that two times, once for me and once for my brother!"

He has known for years that he has half mine and half his dad's genetic material - we had talked about that. Well the other day he said " I've been wondering and wondering, HOW did I get half of dad's dna and half of yours?" He really seemed puzzled, like he was trying to figure it out! So, I said there is a special cell in mom and a special cell in dad which have half the dna and they get together to make a baby".

When we have these little conversations he seems satisfied with my response and then changes the subject. I take this as a sign that he is not ready for more information yet. I hope to have many small conversations geared to his level of understanding.

So, today I was driving the kids and their friend to the movies and talking about some problems they are having with a friend who says a lot of mean things to them. I said, this is a good life lesson. There will be people like this boy to deal with throughout your lives. When you are older I hope you can stand up for your rights, for example if a girlfriend treats you poorly, you can go your separate ways. Well, my son asked "What if she gets pregnant - I can't break up with her then"!!!!!!!!
He is only 8!
YIKES
I think he really needs more information. It seems now every day he has questions.
I think I will look up the book Sweet recommended for him and sit down and really, really talk. His friends ask me questions too - they need to talk to their own parents. I already had to call my neighbor because I explained a little bit when her son was over. I was rounding at the hospital last week and I was telling the boys about seeing the preemie babies in the hospital who came out of their moms too early. Well, did that ever start the questions!!
I really appreciate hearing from others who are dealing with the same things!
I guess what really gets me is, once he knows all the facts, I feel like he will not really be a child anymore. I feel I will relate to him from then on as an adult and not a child anymore.
Did anyone else feel this way and was this true?