i know that there are PLENTY of women and men actually going through medical school while having more than one child...i guess what i really need is advice.
i already have one child, a daughter who will be turning four at the end of this month. she's starting to ask repeatedly for a little brother or sister. it broke my heart to see her cry as her little cousin left our house today after a day-long play date. she said she wished he was her brother .
as a third year premed student, i know that medical school draws closer each day. of course theres a great chance i wouldn't get in, but say i did. i mean, putting confidence aside, i do believe i have an "o.k." chance of earning a spot.
how terrible of a mother would i be if i waited until after i finished my goals? by then, she would be app. 10 y/o .
i guess i wouldn't be too worried about doing so if my daughter at least did not mention it as much as she does now. is it awfully difficult to have 2 kids in medical school? i feel as if my load at the moment is enough for my husband and i to handle, but at the same time...my daughter is everything to me and i just want to provide her anything her little heart desires...provided that its doable and it is in the best interest of my family.
besides, my clock is always on and off which contributes to more confusion...ANY advice would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Annie

Well, I don't have any advice, but I sure hope it can be done! When I start school next year, my kids will be 10 months and 3. I posted a note on SDN's allopathic forum and got a few responses if you want to check them out.

I don't think waiting would make you a terrible mother. You need to plan your family the way you want. If I recall, you are still pretty young and shouldn't have to worry about decreased fertility or anything.

Pam

Only you can decide this issue but I can tell you my story. Had first child 2 days before 2nd year classes resumed. Delibarately took 2 years to complete 2nd year due to multiple family issues including new baby. Finished in top 25% of my class. Residency was difficult--married to MD, lived 70 miles from hospital and small child, not to mention hours on call, etc. Planned to not have second child til after residency because I felt it would compromise my education. After 1 yr in practice began trying for child number 2 (at 36 years old)--infertility raised its ugly head. 2 years later I am in love with my new baby after 2 ivf cycles. Currently not working. There is a 10.5 year difference in the ages of my children. Not necessarily what I had planned (I've found nothing works out as planned) but my son is so in love with his sister I know they will have a very special relationship. He is a big help too. I never wanted the 2 year spacing "ideal", always thought 4 years or more would suit me better. Never imagined it would be 10 years! I'm not sure what to tell you. In your shoes I would probably wait to try for child 2, wait to find out what the challenges of med school are for you then decide if you can handle both.

thanx for taking your time in giving me your responses. i understand that i'm still relatively young (had my first really young) and that i have a great deal of time ahead of me...i guess its my daughter that i'm concerned about and its not really me whose tickin'. i remember posting on the old forum that MY clock was tickin, and i realized that most of the reason why i wanted another child so badly was for the sake of my kid. i've got a great husband and a stable family, so why not? it'll only make my daughter happy right? well, i'm figuring out that maybe a 10 yr difference won't be so bad after all, although i still have thinking to do. regardless of my many thoughts, thanks again for your input.

pam,
as i recall, you were trying for a child and there were difficulties with fertility? i could be wrong, but if that was the case, congratulations (again)! i would love to read the responses you recieved on SDN, so if you can get back to me with more info, that would be great.

jessie,
its great to hear that you were also successful in trying for a second child! exactly how is it having your kids 10.5 yrs apart? that may be the case w/ me. is it difficult having one kid "grow up" and then starting all over?

well, hope to hear from the both of you soon
til then...

Annie

Annie have a second child when you and your husband are ready for a second child. Remember that children are quite fickle and just because now she seems to want a brother or sister does not mean that later it will be the same. Having two kids versus one was a total differen ball game for me. I know that to some it seems the same workload but not to me. I have tons of more stuff to do, and my kids fight constantly (three years apart). They argue from the time they wake up to the time they fall asleep. I am not trying to pursuade you one way or the other, but having another child will change your live even more. With med school looming ahead, I would wait if possible and see what that is like and then if you decide that you can manage both a new child and med school then go for it. Another choice is having your second child now and letting med school wait. I have done the latter and do not regret it one bit. Both my kids will be a lot older by the time I start and much more self-sufficient. I am 36 and if all goes well will start medical school when I am 38. My kids will be 15 and 12 at that time.

efex101,

thanks for your reply! i'v heard in the past people have said to me...if you can do it with one child you can certainly do it with two! i'm leaning more towards disagreeing with that b/c as i proceed further academically (undergrad) it gets much more difficult. at times, i find myself stressing out about WAY too many things as little as those things may be (well cooked dinner, bathtime for my child, cleaning, etc etc) b/c my mind remains locked on my studies. i begin to wonder what it would be like if i did have that extra hour to study for the "killer" exam . i feel that maybe its ok to wait for the 2nd munchkin b/c i KNOW that the load right now for my husband and i is surely enough to handle (my husband is a business student so he studies a great deat too). however, everyone is different and there are those respectable "supermoms" that can do it. i'm just beginning to feel that i'm not one of them

i guess what it boils down to is more consideration has to be done. i concern myself alot over my daughter and what she wants...but i need to realize that i can't be so emotional but be a bit more practical. i don't think i'm willing to put med school off cuz i want that done and over with ASAP! my family is everything to me and i know as long as i keep my mind to it, my daughter will be just fine. whether i have my next sooner or later...she'll get her sibling. once again, thanks for your reply! i hope all is well for you and your family

PAM,
if you read this, i needed to ask you a question...i've tried for several days now to visit the SDN site via yahoo.com b/c i don't know the exact URL...but it consistently says that the page is not available. do you have any info on that? maybe i'm doing something wrong. hope to hear from you soon!

Annie

I fall on the side of doing what's best for the family...and that's a decision that only you and your hubby can make If you aren't ready for a second child, definately wait....I did my master's degree in molecular biology with three small children and I'm hear to say that it was really, really tough! I really was juggling to meet the demands of all of the children. If I had had one child it would have been challenging, but not as difficult. All of mine are different ages and meeting all of their needs was, quite frankly...impossible. I ended up feeling like a failure at home...and at school...though I did well, I could have done better. If you have a new baby, you'll need to focus the time and attention on them......and your studies will suffer...and sis might want a sibling now...but when the baby comes along, you may be dealing with jealousy as well...

Kris

caligirl, having a 10.5 year difference is great from my perspective. My son adores his sister, is just as in love with her as we are. So far, (3mos) there has been no sibling rivalry. He realizes she's a baby and her needs take priority. He is eager to help out--change diapers, go get things, hold her etc. Don't let spacing ideals fool you. I know a lot of people who later regret their decision to "ideally" space their children 2 yrs apart. There is no guarentee your children will be lifelong friends no matter what the spacing.

For those of you having problems logging onto SDN, here is a link that takes you directly to the pre-allopathic forum, this seems to work better than going to the main forum page. Good luck. SDN

wow! i'm getting such wonderful feedback from so many of you! thank you so much !

Kris, i know what you're talking about...the failure thing...there was a point in time where my situation got so difficult i felt i was a failure as mom, a wife, and a student. i felt that my performance in school was withering away...i even found myself becoming more and more jealous of my classmate who were not in my situation (having more time, etc). but i soon realized that i just needed to meditate and figure out a way to manage my time a bit better...but thanks for your input, you should be awefully proud doing what you're doing with 3 beautiful children!

jesse, i agree with you when it comes to spacing children. its a great thing that your son is so helpful and adores your daughter the way he does. i begin to feel that maybe my daughter will have the girlish instincts and be of good help when time comes for a new baby:) i went and visited a friend of mine today, she just gave birth 1 week ago. i caught myself staring at her brand new baby and thought...babies are so wonderful (blessings)...but also caught myself thinking that it was just not my time. thanks for your reply!

efex101, i tried using that URL and it worked! thanks for solving my problem.

well, as of now i'm on summer vacation (the only relaxing one i'll have in a loooong time), and i'm going to spend it wisely...FAMILY TIME . once again, thanks everyone!

Annie (from sunny southern california )

I'm not sure how to answer your question, because it hits home on so many levels. I'm a MS4 and had my second child at the end of first year. My oldest at the time was 4-1/2. #2 wasn't planned... too much Bailey's on Christmas Eve... and having spent more time with my cadaver than my husband first semester... and guess what?
I could give you all the gruesome details if you really wanted. The heartbreak when my milk dried up one month after returning to school, having to argue with the curriculum office that I was NOT going to take my Cardiovascular exam the next day because my baby was in the hospital with RSV...
I think in some ways it was harder for me because my husband was doing a malignant general surgery residency at the time and I was expected to compromise my studies because he had to take care of live patients. I also had to transfer medical schools midway through my education because my husband finished his residency and took an attending job in a neighboring state.
Don't get me wrong... I wouldn't trade my children for the world... but it's made medical school much harder than I ever thought it would. I've had only a fraction of the time my classmates have had to study - and my grades show it. I went from a post-bacc science 3.88 GPA to a "P = MD" mentality very very quickly.
You can do it all... but you can't do it all well at the same time. Something has to give.
And here I sit, typing this post, my husband on call doing an appendectomy as we speak... when I should be studying. I'm having trouble passing Boards and have finally forced myself to cut out ALL my other activities except for being a mom and studying until I pass this darned thing in July.
I have classmates that have sailed through med school while having babies. One had a baby three days before that notorious Cardio exam and went in to sit for the test!
I guess what I am saying is this... don't have a baby on anyone else's time table except your own. And don't kick yourself if you can't do absolutely everything... med students are notoriously perfectionistic and tough on themselves... give yourself a break. It will have taken me almost six years to get out of here... having had to take two medical leaves... but I'm graduating, and God willing will match next March. And the pride and love that I felt for my sons as they watched me at my hooding ceremony in May reminds me of what really matters.

Linda

Linda, (and everyone )

I hear you....I really do! I think that right now, I'm very unsure of what my next step will be and many things that Linda said really struck a cord. There is a big part of me that is ready and really wants to move forward with my med school planning....but there is another part of me that screams "NO".....when I did my masters, my hubby was doing an ID fellowship. It should have been 'easy' (at least easier than residency in terms of call, etc..) but he was q2 call for two YEARS! It was miserable, and very stressful for me. I had already begun the MS program when we realized how ridiculous the fellowship would be and felt unable to back out. We then were clashing so much that I felt that I had to finish school because I was afraid that my marriage was about to fall apart (and it nearly did). I was always rushing....to get hubby to work, the kids to school, my youngest home for the sitter, then back on campus...running to classes then straight into the lab...pick up kids as soon as schedule allowed....then I felt resentful that I didn't have time to myself or the opportunities to 'really' study. I did ok academically...but not brilliantly...I was home all afternoon and evening and then was off to the lab again from about 9pm -3am....and then the whole routine started again the next day....I sort of turned into freak chick :

I remember one day I went to the bathroom and realized that 1. my shirt was on inside out and 2. I hadn't brushed my hair I am sure that sounds terribly shocking to everyone...I just couldn't manage to hold it all together and I felt soooooo inadequate in all areas. I really did.

I'm at home now with the children and am suffering because I feel bored and lonely...but I know now that the grass just looks greener on the other side of this...they will only be young once and so I'm choosing to stay home for the next couple of years....and it is a damned hard decision..it really is...I'm not getting any younger. I'm 32 and I feel time ticking away. I worry that the longer I wait the more difficult it will be for me to gain admission to medical school. I even worry that I may lose the desire to go and will end up not even trying after all of this effort....I don't know what the right thing is for me or for the family now, but I gained some insight talking to a physician friend of mine. She regrets making the choices she made at the times in her life that she did and told me to follow my heart...because we don't get the opportunity to go back. She missed out on a lot of the young years with her children and now that they are teen-agers and she has more time (she is established in practice and now only works part-time), her children don't have time for HER!

I am not even sure of what the original question was for this thread...it has somehow veared a bit from the original idea, I think.....

I guess though that we all have to make decisions that are 'right' for us and our families. If my husband hadn't just finished residency and fellowship and wasn't busy establishing himself in practice, I don't think I would have the same issues about going to school....I would be more likely to be doing it right now instead of waiting. Everyone's situation is different...we have to do what works the best for our families....

Kris

linda,

thanks for your reply...first of all it was a very helpful reply regardless of whether you believed it to be . might i say that you are one tough "soldier" and should be proud of your accomplishments. 2 kids during medical school must have been so difficult especially with an MD hubby.

well, let me just tell you that i have taken everything you have said into consideration. i am so pleased that you were able to share that with me and other women with similar questions. i'm about 90% sure that i'll have to wait until after med school, all sighns point that way for me. if i had another one b4 or during med school, i too would find myself in a difficult situation. my husband is going into i-banking (has his fingers crossed) and provided that things work out for him, he'll be working hours similar to that of resident physicians. don't think i can cut that w/ another child.

i wish i had thought of all of this b4 and saved myself the headache, but b/c i didn't, i sure am thankful that i've gotten so much insight, advice, and informative replys...yours definitely included. i wish you and your family all the luck, have you picked a specialty yet?

annie

Funny you should ask that Annie...

I have decided (as of now that is) to apply in two programs, OB/Gyn and Peds. It's a complicated story (ask Kris!) but I have been fluctuating between the two for at least three years now.
I am concerned about lifestyle - not just hours (OB), but could I see myself in clinic all day, every day (peds). Where I do residency is obviously complicated... should I stay or should I go? Can't decide, but hubby claims he would follow me at the same time he is buying into the practice and becoming a partner.

But really... I love them both. And my grades and scores being what they are, I decided it would not hurt to apply to both programs. We shall see in a month or so when I have to finish those personal statements!

Linda

Linda,

I will cross my fingers for you that you get the OB...I know that in your heart of hearts it is what you want to do.

Honestly, I've been watching your story for a couple of years now and I have looked to you for inspiration and a reality check. I don't know what the future hold for me in terms of medicine..I'm still a bit of a fence-walker...but being a part of this group has given me hope that I can do it...and knowing you and hearing the ups and downs of your own medical school life has been an inspiration to me as well. You always tell it like it is..you've never tried to sugar-coat it for me and I have appreciated your honesty throughout this process.

I genuinely want you to get into the residency that you want...you definately deserve it....
:p

Kris

i agree with you kris...i've been reading around on the forum and just got linda's reply right now and i hope the best for her as well. i know how it is...being an undergrad, not yet in medical school with so much uncertainty that lies ahead. but linda's stories gives me a glimpse of hope and a taste of the actual experience. makes me believe that all med students are normal people just like me, and as they did, i have a chance in fullfilling my dreams.

linda, i do hope that when you make your decision about residency, whether it be peds or OB/GYN, you're the happiest w/ your decision.
there are so many of US who aren't quite there yet, but it is people like you that provide the inspiration and fuel the flame (motivation and hard work) so that we can reach our goals . thanks a great deal!

might i ask how the hours differ between the two residenies of your choice? OB is something i'm also VERY interested in...

kris, what specialty is your husband in? what are you interested in?

well, i wish you both (kris and linda) the BEST of luck and i hope all goes your way.

annie

Dear Kris, (I can't seem to figure out how to make a quote so I'll just copy!)
" I'm at home now with the children and am suffering because I feel bored and lonely...but I know now that the grass just looks greener on the other side of this...they will only be young once and so I'm choosing to stay home for the next couple of years....and it is a damned hard decision..it really is...I'm not getting any younger. I'm 32 and I feel time ticking away. I worry that the longer I wait the more difficult it will be for me to gain admission to medical school. I even worry that I may lose the desire to go and will end up not even trying after all this work"

Well, I'm 36 so I have you beat there! and have no intention of pursuing medicine until my children are older (currently 10 and 7). I applaud your decision to stay home with your kids. As you know from my post on the other thread (do you have doubts) I consider time with my children to be my greatest privelege. If you have the desire for med school now, I would suspect that it won't fade in the years ahead. As for admission, I had a long talk with our states med school and they said that waiting wouldn't pose a problem for admission as long as I was able to show ability to handle university work in the few years prior to admission so don't let THAT worry you. In fact, our states school said that there was good reason to delay application....Few people truly realize the rigors of med school and residency. By having my children estabilished and nearly out of the house, they would know that I would not be distracted (or perhaps drop out) during the reality of med school. One warning though, it's important that the delay not be seen as lack of committment. I've chosen to continue to volunteer one morning a week at the hospital, and now that both my children are in school I'm pursuing a masters degree in Chemisty. (although not full time)

I wish you the very best! Give those kids a hug for me, Cynthia

On a personal note, in all the elderly patients I've seen in my hospital work there appears to be an overriding theme. None of them lament the THINGS they didn't do, but almost ALL of them lament the TIME they didn't spend with their family. It could be just the people I've served, but it's an interesting observation.

Thanks for the positive strokes y'all... it means a lot to me.

Though I'm nearing the other side of the med school journey (please God!!!!), it can still feel as isolating at times as it did eight years ago, when I first went back to school to start my medicine pre-reqs. That is one of the wonderful things about this forum; reminding ourselves that we are not alone, that there are others out there who are as crazy as we are! (Go square peggers!)

This residency decision is going to be difficult. It will in many ways probably signal the end of my 11 year marriage, if not when I start residency, then when I finish it. But I accept that, and will make the decision that is best for me and for my children. If I do choose peds it will be the first time (I think) that I will have chosen the "easier" road. I tend to make things hard on myself, and expect way too much of myself (as do most of us). I dearly love OB, but it might not be the best thing for me to do. We shall see...

As Kris said, I don't sugar-coat things. At least not very well... part of my Midwestern upbringing, I suppose. But what I want you all to know is that no matter what, I firmly believe that all this has been worth it. Going back to school has been the riskiest thing I have ever done in my life. But I am a better, stronger woman because of it, and I believe that in turn makes me a better mother and a better doctor.

Linda

linda,

your still waiting on your residencies right? well, i just wanted to let you know that you sound like a very strong woman and your strength carries outwards towards people who aren't as far along in the road as you are. :p

i'll tell you one thing. as a mom, a wife, and a premed student, i can use all the strength i can get my "hands" on, and all the words of wisdom that i can take .

hopefully residency and your career thereafter will go smoothly and you won't have to expect any negativites in life (husband and children). but its the strength that you have that so many admire that will keep you successful in all aspects of your life. i wish the best for you.

try to keep us posted (residency)

annie

I know that there are so many other issues you have to deal with now that you've made it this far, but do you have any advice - looking back - for a married 27yr-old about to start her 2nd year and wanting to work on our first in the next year or so? Somtimes I think it's silly to even think about it, but I hear all of your stories and a lot of people are more worried about 2nd and 3rds than getting started with number one! We don't want our lives to beon hold until I'm finished here, but we also don't want to kid ourselves about what's fair to eachother and the child! Sorry to answer your message with a solicitation for advice, but you and many others seem like valuable resources.

PS. I'm new, so sorry if I've missed important tidbits discussed already!

dr.jones,

Hi ! If you feel that planning on trying for your first child next year is the right time, then you should definitely go ahead and bring a child into the world. If you read around here on the MomMD forums, you'll see that many view that the "right time" is when you feel it to be, only b/c there is never a perfect time to have a child. There are of course better times than others, but many of those times are in the future which can never be accurately predicted.

One thing that I do believe is this. Many of us concern ourselves on having *another* child meaning #2,#3, etc. Having a child already gives us parents the taste of having to juggle between children and school/career. It is quite different going from already having a child than from going from none to one. You go from having the freedom of time (although I'm assuming that med students are always short of it ) to a very limited amount of time and having to manage it to a much greater extent.

Depending on your situation provided that everyone has different cases, you may very well be able to do it. If you have family or excellent child care under your belt then it is easier than those who have to do it all on their own. I only believe that it is something to think about before you decide that having a child as soon as you want to is what you TRULY want. You still have options.

However, children are such blessings and bring us such joy that all of that can be overlooked without a problem. I can tell you that from a mom and student's perspective. You eventually forget about all of the worries the stresses and difficulties and you start to think that it isn't really that hard. Unless you consume yourself with regret and living in the past (when you didn't have a child) or by comparing yourself with those who are not in your situation, life becomes pretty grand. This is because balancing school and family becomes your life and your life is all you know.

I just want to attempt to give you both sides of the story. I'll tell you one thing. Having a 4 y/o daughter is the best thing I can ever imagine. Sure, times get difficult but I keep going aware that this is my life...my daughter is my life. That in itself makes my life wonderful and every ounce of stress, hardship, worries, etc. is worth it by a million. If you feel that you are ready and that you are capable of taking on the whole package (the good and the bad) at this point in which you stand, then you will more than likely feel the same way I do .

I wish you and your husband all of the joy and luck. Keep us posted!

Annie