Since this came up on the school age kid thread, I thought I'd start a new one specifically about this issue. For us, my 7 year old son is highly gifted in all academic areas and after having him tested last year as a first grader, we followed the recommendations to have him skip second grade and he's now in third. The hard part is that he's still not challenged enough. So we are currently trying to figure out whether he should skip another grade, move to a new school with a hopefully more challenging curriculum, move to a different school system where we could use public schools (currently we're in a city with bad public schools and that's not a viable option) which have some gifted and talented resources but which would require us to spend time commuting (ugh), etc.

Helpful resources so far have been the Center for Talented Youth at Johns HOpkins University. They did the testing and made recommendations, and we were able to immediately start a "distance learning" math program which my son does on a laptop instead of math in his class. It allows him to progress at his own pace. They also have summer camp programs all over the country which kids can attend with really cool topics especially in science which our elementary school really doesn't provide much.

Another resouce has been the Davidson Foundation, which serves "profoundly gifted" kids and their families both in providing resources and recommendations. They were especially helpful in figuring out about accelerating our son and are also willing to talk with the school, teacher, etc.

Any other suggestions/experiences?

Hi there,

When I was 7 years old, I was given an IQ test because I was very bored in school. I scored high and was sent to a school that had gifted classes. I guess it depends where you live, but we had gifted classes all throughout school. It was great, the curriculum was challenging and we got to do a lot of interesting things.

I would suggest trying to find a school that has classes specifically for gifted children. It would be better for him to be around other gifted children rather than be skipped ahead.

M-A

this may be slightly off the topic but at what age did you realize that your son was gifted? how coudl you tell?

actually i do have something on topic. the talent identifictaion prgroam at Duke i hear is really good.

We knew initially because he was so verbal. When he was 18 months old we counted (for fun) the number of words he said and got to 180 before we ran out. He was also very articulate very early, so you could actually understand all those ideas! Since he was tall, people tended to think he was 4, not 2. Then it was math concepts that he got quickly and early (before school), just figuring stuff out in daily life. Then it was correcting everybody's spelling and grammar (one of the more irritating phases). Then it was just being really bored because he already had figured out all of the first grade stuff (i.e. phonics and math), which prompted the testing last year.

PS, Thanks M-A regarding the suggestion for a gifted school. We would LOVE an option like that but haven't found one locally. Where was yours? Anyone else have a local school specifically for gifted kids?

Your seven year old sounds like my son. Similar early childhood history (>200 words at 15 mos, articulate, reading and multiplying 5x and 10x before 1st grade, recognizing logos--not just golden arches at 19mos.) He is bright but not an IQ of 140 or anything. He is now 12yo. He was tested at the end of 1st grade but before that his teachers just accelerated his work--gave him more difficult spelling words, more difficult math work, chapter books to read while others were learning the basics, sent him to read to the 1st graders while he was in K, etc.) We moved (finished training) right after he was tested, new state, new rules. Had to wait until 3rd grade to get into gifted program. Where we lived for 2nd-5th grade there were 4 criteria for the gifted program and they had to meet 3 of them in order to qualify. Children were removed from their regular class 4days a week for 50 min for the gifted program which focused on higher level thinking skills/critical thinking. The fifth day, the gifted teacher went to the regular classroom and taught all the students some higher level thinking skills. It was a great program, not just "enrichment". Moved again during 5th grade. NO GIFTED PROGRAM at all in the public schools here and VERY few private schools (one) which would be any different than the public school in terms of such things. Now there is only "enrichment" which is all extra-curricular and parent led (some teacher led but not much). They will accelerate them in math so my 7th grader is now taking Algebra. They have also started a "literature group" with the gifted kids. They meet once a month and discuss a book they have been assigned (adult themed and reading level books). Other than that there is nothing. He sits for the SAT this weekend to qualify for other gifted programs offered in the summer throughout the US. In high school they are allowed to take coursework at the local community college.

With that said, I think it would have been detrimental to him to be accelerated a grade. He is very young for his grade (late august birthday and sent to K at 5yo) and socially it would have been a problem. In my opinion, academics are not everything and there is a lot to be said for learning how to fit in with others who are not like you. I don't want him to be bored (tho I think he is sometimes) but I also don't see the point of finishing college before you're 18 yo either. Social maturity and emotional maturity are just as important to success as academic ability.

I echo the warning about accelerating your son to fast because of social issues. I was identified as "gifted" (sort of a loose term if you ask me) in the 1st grade and several teachers approached my parents about skipping grades. They said no and to this day I am so glad because socially it would have been very difficult. Elementary school would not have been such an issue, but middle school and high school would have just been that much tougher. As it was I was a "late" birthday in my class so I always hit every milestone "last"-think driver's license time!

I know my 3rd grade teacher did a lot of extra math with me and I attended a gifted summer school during elementary school. It was easier being challenged in middle school because that is when all of the "advanced" classes started being available. Then once in high school I took Advanced Placement classes and I skipped my senior year of high school to go to college (a great private University) on the state's dime (Minnesota). I'm not sure if that program still exists, but I felt that was a great way to go...I had already done everything in high school I wanted to do (lettered in sports, been to prom twice, participated in student council, had a great circle of friends, etc) and I got to choose whether or not to go early. Saved me a year of college tuition! I know that this program was also available on a part time basis with people taking half time college credits and still attending 1-2 classes at high school to stay with their peers. I actually moved into the dorms so that I wouldn't feel like I didn't fit anywhere. My first roommate was actually a sophomore, 2 full years older than me and we had a blast! But...by then I was ready for the social pressures that come with hanging with an older crowd.

Good luck, its a tough issue, and unfortunately a lot of states don't do enough to help with this issue.

I am in Canada so I don't think this will help, but the gifted program was in Toronto. I'm sorry you can't find one! Has the school helped you at all with this situation?

M-A

The teacher is helpful, but the principal was very reluctant to skip him the first time, even though he has done fine. I'm not so worried about him having skipped once because he's tall and doing fine socially, and I skipped too and graduated from HS at 16, college at 20, and that gave me some extra flexibility so I was still done with residency by 30. But skipping another year I think might be tougher because he really isn't so organized and self-motivated at this point, and for fifth grade I think he would need to be. We will be applying to 2 other schools, one a public school gifted class/program and one another private school that might have a more challenging curriculum.

One of the issues that has come up is that he really needs intellectual peers so he has some kids who can encourage each other and be curious together. Currently his class is pretty negative about school and complains a lot about ANY work. Not good. I'm just trying to figure out how to find out whether the kids in the new schools' classes are brighter and more interested. Ideas?

I think he would definitely benefit from being around other gifted children, rather than older children. He will get more stimulation and a sense of equality with other gifted kids. I'm glad I wasn't skipped ahead, but rather was with other gifted kids of the same age. I think it would be a better environment for him to learn and grow.

Good luck with the gifted schools!

M-A

I would really like to hear from those of you that have gifted children that are in school regarding what you did for kindergarten. I have a daughter who will be five next month. She currently attends preschool just for the socialization as we moved midway through the year so she didn't get to do a pre-K type program. She sounds very much like the previous posts I have read in terms of early vocal development, thinking skills, etc. She is reading easy chapter books already and has a huge vocab. She can do addition and subtraction, counts by 5,10, 2, etc. I am taking a beginning Spanish class this semester and she is learning a lot of it right along with me. I am very concerned about next year when she goes to kindergarten. On the one hand, she loves the social aspect of it anyway, but on the other hand, isn't school about learning? I have seen the objectives for kindergarten in our district and she can do almost all of them. My concern is that the teaher will not spend time with her in challenging her and instead focus on the children that need to catch up. What was your experience with this?
Obviously, my husband and I challenge her at home, but school is a huge deal. We were both homeschooled and so just worked way ahead at our own pace. But, we do not want that for her. So, we are really not sure what to do. Any ideas???

My school district has several alternative schools. Some of them allow your children to go part time with the *gifted* school and part time regular. Or even just part time gifted school. I have my oldest in a alternative school that is not a *gifted* school, but rather a school that focuses on the fundamentals. i.e. reading, arithmetic, and science. For the most part it has kept him busy, but we do alot at home...He's in 1st grade and loves to read Harry Potter :laughing: :laughing: In fact it was kind of funny, I went to check on him after he was asleep and found his Harry Potter book in bed with him. How cute!
The problem with the alternative schools is that the regular schools do not usually tell you about them, even if they are in the district Well, good luck...it is deffinately a challenge!!!

My 10 year old is like many of the others described. From his experience and my own, I would difinitely not recommend kids skipping grades. How many of you encountered the keds on college or med school who were younger than everyone else? They were 'different,' and didn't socialize with the others. It is not only important to progress in academics, but to learn the other life 'lessons' that come at every age. I attended a lecture recently where several parents in my school distric berated the administration for not meeting the needs of their particular gifted children. The moderator made a really good point. Life will not always challenge you outright- you may need to look for the challenges you need. Your child may think the reading or math material at grade level is boring or easy, but the truly gifted child can go beyond to find something interesting. I do believe, however, that this is a learned skill, and that educators need to identify the exceptional kids and teach them the tools they need to look beyond the ordinary. Our school does not have a gifted program per se, but does practice differentiation within the classroom. For example with reading, one group gets the story read to them, another reads it themselves, another reads it then makes up a new ending- a good way of helping kids at various levels deal with the same material.

Wait a minute. I was one of those "younger" kids, only by 2 years, but still younger, and I think I did fine and fit in fine. We've reviewed a lot of the literature, and for many of the kids they do better when they are with intellectual-matched peers than with age-matched peers. I think it depends more on the kid. Some are obviously better at managing social situations than others. Anyone know how the Miss Wisconsin (I think?!) who graduated from med school at 20 fit in?

But I think you have an excellent point in that life doesn't provide the challenges, you need to learn to do that for yourself. It's just hard when you are 7. In our case, we don't have a local school district with a lot of resources because we're in an inner city where most schools don't even have libraries. Parents here tend to pay, often a lot, for school. And that means that we are really trying to figure out where to make that investment. We already supplement school with so many other learning opportunities both at home and in other areas like language and music and museums and travel. But we would like school to be challenging and not boring. Right now our son is increasingly negative about school. He gets excited when he's learning, and right now he's not. It's just not clear yet whether a different school would solve the problem or whether he still wouldn't be challenged enough until he's in a higher level of material. I'll keep you posted ...

psych,

This is something that we have grappled with as well with our oldest child....we came to the conclusion that for him, skipping a grade would not be the best thing. He wasn't ready socially. We've been very lucky with the school district that we live in because they have an excellent gifted and talented program for elementary school. We did look into the JH and Stanford math programs but also decided to wait. I am afraid of getting us into a situation where he gets too far ahead academically and then will fit in socially less and less.

He struggles so much already socially that it is a huge issue for him. I worry about that for him.

We are challenging him in other ways....I homeschool them in German and he and his siblings go to a german school every Saturday. I would suggest that instead of skipping him another grade that perhaps you do some lateral learning (as opposed to trying to skip ahead more). Maybe you could find a language immersion program, music program etc that would interest him?

kris

Thank you to one and all for your posts. I have a LOT of questions about this whole area. (I was the poster on the other thread.)

My 6 year old is the current issue, and I think my daughter (age 2) may be even more of an issue when she gets there, being even more verbal and a second child. (btw re how/when we knew he was gifted: we only realized how gifted he was when we had him privately tested in early kindergarten. I wanted to know what kind of gifted services he would be eligible for when we finally bought a house so we could make plans. The night before the testing - which my husband was reluctant to do and pay for - my husband was telling me why our son probably would not qualify too highly. Comment when we got the results: "holy shit" :boggled:

Psych - thank you for the steer to the Davidson institute. Very interesting. I really feel for any of you where there is no option at all for gifted programs. And private school is just so expensive. We just don't easily have 40K a year post-tax for 2 kids for ELEMENTARY school!!!

It's a shame that our public schools don't do a good job of working with the gifted children. My daughter has struggled with math...she is great at reading and is in the gifted reading program and is currently taking part in the "battle of the books"...but she is getting special help in math (has anyone else had this kind of an experience with a child?) The program for helping children who are struggling is phenomenal...it is an incredible experience...and when I contrast it to the gifted programming it is very disappointing. It is unfortunate that they can't put the same funding and effort into gifted programs.

kris

Thanks Kris. He is in German school (popular language?!) one morning a week and takes an instrument twice a week and sings in a chorus. We feel maxed out with outside of school activities. That's why we are trying so hard to work on in-school modifications. We figure if we are paying for school, we would like him to be learning there.

A new strategy we started this week is now instead of his official spelling homework, he makes up his own spelling list with words he learns from reading or talking with us or wherever, and he uses them to write a chapter of a book that we started. He was really excited about this. Also, he's dictating the chapter for me to type because he still writes a lot more slowly than he thinks. The writing is substituting for a weekly assignment all the kids have; it's just more complicated and has more interesting spelling words. He was SO excited about this last week, it gave me hope that we can keep him enthusiastic if we just work REALLY hard to come up with substitutions for his schoolwork. But I wish the school could do it instead.

My daughter is also interested in putting her own books together- she gets bored just doing spelling homework. She can't read very well yet, but she loves to make up her own stories (with her own drawings) so we have an ongoing book writing project. I just help her in spelling what she wants to write.

Kris- does your husband speak German with the kids? I'm a bit in the opposite situation, where she has been in a german school environment and I was trying to homeschool her in English (and I was the only person she spoke English with). But I found with me working full time, it wasn't working well, because we were both too tired at night for serious study. So I switched her to a new bilingual school,which is still a bit experimental. We have to work hard to keep the right balance between the 2 languages so that one doesn't slip. She's been catching up in English but neglecting the German.

In the German part of her school, they actually teach the kids to write before they start them reading. The opposite of the approach in her English classes. There are other differences in approach too. It was confusing at first, but maybe it helps them keep the languages separate too.

Interesting thread. One that I do not talk abot much with people. My daughter has also tested as highly gifted and we are inconclusive what to do with her. She is currently in a mixed age classroom, but we just interviewed at the Mirman School (www.mirman.org) for anyone in Los Angeles. Not sure what to do.

Anyhow, here are some links that I got from a gifted list that I am part of... the list is here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/giftedpre/

Hope these help.

Advanced preschoolers board at iVillage
http://boards.parentsoup.com/messages/get/psadvancedpre11.html

Advocacy for Gifted and Talented Education in New York
http://www.agateny.org/

Article on nurturing you gifted child
http://www.parenthoodweb.com/articles/phw1933.htm

California Association for the Gifted
http://www.CAGifted.org/

Checklist for gifted preschoolers
http://www.austega.com/gifted/preschoolers.htm

Cinnamon Toast Reading Center
Great resources for reading: concepts, encouraging, teaching.
http://www.mycinnamontoast.com/readingcenter.htm

Flashcard Exchange
Flashcards you can print out for every age group.
http://www.flashcardexchange.com/

Free coloring pages and great learning video
Great free coloring pages to keep the little ones busy!!! Video product is also great for keeping the kids entertained. Call it "edu-tainment". Gives your child a headstart on word-object recoginition.
http://www.tickletops.com

Gifted & Talented Resources
http://http://familyeducation.com/article/0,1120,1-7953,00.html

Gifted Children
Identification, encouragement and development
http://www.gifted-children.com/

Gifted Development Center
a service of the Institute for the Study of Advanced Development
http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/

Gifted child website by teacher and librarian
http://www.giftedchildren.cjb.net/

Gifted, Homeschool and LD Resources
A great site with tons of links that pertain to gifted kids, homeschooled kids, and LD kids
http://members.aol.com/discanner/index.html

Glossary of Gifted Education
Giftedness and education from the perspective of sociologic social psychology
http://members.aol.com/svennord/ed/GiftedGlossary.htm

Helen Dowland's excellent site on helping gifted children
http://helendowland.terminus.net.au/

Hoagies Gifted Org
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/

Justin's Story
Fascinating story of one gifted boy with an alleged IQ of over 290
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/justin/?

Los Angeles Unified School District
Info on the gifted and talented programs
http://www.lausd.k12.ca.us/lausd/offices/GATE/

National Association for Gifted Children
http://www.nagc.org/

National Foundation for Gifted and Creative Children
http://www.nfgcc.org/

Online support for parents of Gifted & Talented children
http://www.gtworld.org/

Parent Center gifted board
http://www.parentcenter.com/bbs/18927

Pre-K Smarties
A site for bright/gifted preschoolers; lots of resources
http://www.preksmarties.com/reading/

Prufrock Press
The leading publisher supporting the education of gifted children
http://www.prufrock.com/

Resources for gifted kids at about.com
http://childparenting.about.com/msub9e.htm?once=true&TMog=19835656053818m&Mint=6 4792397043910&FFV=1

Schonell Reading Test
Simple test to determine at what level your child is reading
http://members.tripod.com/~gleigh/readtst.htm

The Young Gifted Child
Short article including signs that a young child may be gifted.
http://familyeducation.com/article/0,1120,2-501,00.html

Thanks for all of this valuable info. Just yesterday, my husband and I were discussing this topic. Our older daughter is about to turn 4, and she will be leaving her daycare/preschool in the fall to start at a local private school (pre-K). We have heard wonders about the school, and we will not be funding it, otherwise we would likely stick with public school. Both of us were products of public schools, and did not necessarily want to choose the private option, but it's being handed to us on a silver platter, and the local public schools are not great in our district. But, MY biggest question, albeit premature, is what options are available for gifted kids at the private school. She has not even been tested yet, nor will I pursue that until she is older, but she fits the mold, as many of you describe. My brother and I were both schooled in gifted programs that were home based at our public school. Two days a week we went to a different building, same school, and spent the day with our "Resource II" teachers. I spent every summer in elementary school in the gifted summer school program. To this day, those were my fondest memories of any schooling. The most dedicated teachers, and a phenomenal curriculum. Of course, I had no idea how much I would appreciate it until 20 years later. But as a teacher and a parent, I am hoping this type of opportunity will be available should we need it. It seems that public school resources, albeit limited, cater to the acadmically challenged as well as gifted, but not as much for the "average" child. So private schools seem to nurture/pay attention to this....this is all a big, gross generalization.

I am glad to hear of these national resources to think about too. Thanks for all you input and for provoking me to think of this a bit more.

Hi Kris! Thanks for your suggestions. I thought I replied to this yesterday but I don't see it -- wonder if I inadvertently posted it somewhere else?! OOPS! Anyway, we also do German 1/2 day a week, chorus, 2 violin lessons a week, plus church activities. And he does a separate distance learning math track at school. We feel maxed out with out-of-school activities to challenge him, plus since we're paying for this school we want them to help us challenge him. It is just more difficult than I expected, in part because his teacher has her hands full keeping the other kids in the class just at the appropriate level, much less challenging him way ahead. Thanks for your ideas and encouragement.

Duh, now I see it, apparently on the first page. Sethina, thanks for the links!

FPmommy, how did you find out about the "highly gifted" program? We are also considering moving to a different public school system. On one hand, it seems ridiculous, and on the other hand, we don't have another great option here. It is looking more likely that I am going to be doing a lot of driving. Which of course means less time to see patients, which means less income. Argh!

I have found it on the web sites of the districts that we were interested in, and followed up with phone calls. For example, Northern Virginia (one of the areas we looked at due to job situation possibilities) has a series of gifted centers, though none really highly gifted there, but they thought they could handle it - probably- and we should check with prinicples if we got more serious, etc. In some areas it was a magnet system, etc. One idea about driving: If we stay where we are and he needs to be driven about 45-50 mins RT to school each way, I plan to hire someone to take in the AM, and then arrange my shedule to pick up. Also consider carpool. It does seem kind of ridiculous to move, but when you have 2 kids (as you do), the economics get pretty overwhelming.

Little warning---I'm going to vent!

I put my son in a school that I thought would help him. Well, I went to a parent teacher conference and he brought up that my son is constantly on a tangent. During the conf. I brought up that we have a strong line of genius' that run through my family...HE ACTUALLY ROLLED HIS EYES AT ME!!! My son is ahead of most children in his class, he is doing mutiplication and starting to do division, reading, and comprehending way above his level. Now, he is having problems socially. He is such a sensitive child, this part really worries me. Looks like I need to find other venues for him to express his creativity, and check out the *gifted* program in our district.

I am really upset that his teacher acted this way...this school is an accelerated school as it is.

That teacher does not sound supportive. You may want to consider testing your child privately if they don't through the schools. Much to my surprise, I have found it super helpful to have a "number" which tells people I am speaking of a legitimately gifted child rather than just as a fond and proud parent. I never imagined that I would find it useful that way (because my impulse is to conceal the info anyway) but as we are investigating school districts and programs, I have found it amazingly helpful. If you have a "number" then the teacher does not roll their eyes anymore. Good luck!

whoa, sethina, thank you for all the links. Annelies is not quite 7 mo, but we suspect this is a problem we'll have to deal with too (awful, innit?) -- we're already getting the shock-and-awe from grandparents and babysitters about how fast she's moving, and actually she kind of freaked me out this morning by unscrewing the little brass nuts from the base of the speaker stand. They're about 3/8" dia, with about 1/2" thread...I saw her playing there looking all happy & absorbed, then noticed a missing nut, said, "Hey, what're you doing there," opened her fist & found two nuts. She sure looked pleased. I'm going to have to the the floor crawl myself and see what looks tasty.

anyway, thanks - let us know what you decide on your daughter's schooling -
amy

After 3 years in the public school system, I've FINALLY decided to place my gifted daughter in a private school so that she can get what she needs academically. In my personal expereince, leaving a gifted child in an academic situation that cannot meet their needs, can be highly detrimental to the child. As a matter of fact, I may have to delay medical school again to get her "back on tracK".

Yeah, the public-school thing is very tricky...we don't want her to repeat our experiences (bored bored bored, making trouble, bored, shunted off to the side, deputized as a teacher, bored), but frankly it's pretty good training for dealing with a lot of the mindless administrative dumb you run into later in life. It's also the only place you'll be in school with a lot of kids whose parents can't afford private school tuition, kids with behavior problems and learning disabilities, kids whose parents aren't all about education, etc. The rest of the world, iow.

We've still got plenty of time to make these decisions, but we're playing with the idea of keeping her in private school till she's old enough to exercise some impulse control, understand some about why and how things are different in public school, and adjust her behavior for different social situations. But we'll see.

FPmommy, I totally agree about having an IQ that you can tell people so they don't just put you in the category of pushy parents who think their kids are gifted and roll their eyes.

It looks like we're going with another private school option for next year -- they seem much more wililng to work with us and provide some in-school options for acceleration and greater depth. This however means probably 2 1/2 to 3 hrs in the car for me per day. I have an idea of a possible driver to hire ... I'm going to try to be very persuasive and see if he would be willing to shuttle my son so I don't have to cut back on my hours at work!

There's a new book coming out called Genuis Denied about how to help gifted kids and how very often their needs are not being met in schools. I'll review it once I've read it ...