Has anyone else seen this story from Tampa?

http://www.nbc10.com/news/4409467/detail.html?rss=phi&psp=news

I saw the tape of the child being unruly (and in desperate ned of a spanking ). She was tearing things down from the wall, and hitting the teacher,ect.ect.

I think the school went too far calling the police on a 5 year old in the first place. However, I wasn't suprised the school called the police on this kid just as I'm sure she is not the first kid to act out like this. BUT, folks need to understand the the "rules" of law are NOT equally and fairly applied to everyone. Therefore, it's best to just avoid these types of situations in the first place. This goes back to parenting, IMHO.

wow! I dont' know i dont' always want to blame the parents but MOST of the time that's the problem. however why couldnt' the mom get there? maybe a good reason? maybe she was delayed? anyway no excuses but it is isn't ALWAYS the parents fault in these cases. having worked in child psych last summer parents with children with behavioral problems see to get called constantly from the schools so the mom may have also wanted to see what happend if the school handled it. not saying that's right but sometimes these parents have to work part time only for that reason. especially if the kids have mental health issues.
also, similar situations happen almost every day in schools across the nation. nobdoy else has had to control a 5yo with handcuffs! i hope that doesn't scar the child for life!
also what the child was doing from what i saw didn't look that out of the ordinary fro a tantrum i am nto sure why she coudlnt' be controlled iwthout handcuffs?
ther eis so much info missing that i can't even beging to analyze the situation but handcuffs on a 5yo is plain wrong unless she was of grave danger to the people around her which didnt' seem to be the case. but then back in the day that used to be handled with the "board of education". no need for police.

I saw the "to spank or not to spank" debate...and intentionally avoided it. I'm tired of people passing judgement on other people. Most parents are doing the best they can, and are doing what they feel is in the best interest of their children. Why can't both be "right" depending on the child, the parent, and the circumstances?

Anyway, I agree with Path...this child needs a spanking. I even believe that those swats with the paddle that were dished out by the prinicpal when I was in elementary...were in order. It takes a village...

If this child cannot be controlled (but by police) at 5 years old...this family is in a world of trouble come 10 years.

Instead of us suggesting spanking=abuse, perhaps we should support parents being parents. If parents are allowed to parent...our children would be better citizens.

I agree and sorry that i didn't adequately convey this in my post.
but then too with the spanking. i believe in spanking and maybe that is what the child needs. but what if it's something else? like an untreated mental health or emotional problem. so in effect it's still passing judgment. the child actually might be adequately discplined but going through something that we and the media know nothing about. so really it is all comments and opinions rather than judgment any way.

This is actually a good point. And you would think that the teachers at the school, with employed child counselors, and who have probably dealt with children with untreated mental illness, would know a situation like this when they see it.

But I think we have to keep in mind the circumstances presented here. From what I gathered when the Mother's lawyer was interviewed on TV today, this child is from a poor, black, single parent home and these 3 factors when combined probably taint the viewpoints of the school administrators and police in how they should handle a situation like this. As far as I'm concerned, this child didn't have a "chance" from the first time she was reported to vice-principle of the school.

So all in all, this is a very difficult situation to call because it seems everyone involved from the parents to the school officials and police, have handled this situation and the circumstances that led to it very, very, poorly.

I agree with sargasso here...how can we even really know all of the details about this situation?
Is the child currently a victim of emotional, physical or sexual abuse...this type of acting out...and even violent behavior would not be atypical. Are there family problems that could be addressed by social workers/psychologists or should we just...spank the mom and the kid and be done with it? Has this child been fully evaluated for any behavioral or developmental issues before we decide to cuff her?

You would think...We had a child move here two years ago who had some emotional problems. His mom had custody of him but the dad simply never returned him after a weekend visitation. She had no money to hire an attorney and had to go through the state system to get the child back. Don't ask me why the police couldn't intervene. I have no idea. At the end of the day, the child was returned to his mother...he was found in a teeny apartment that was filthy. He was underweight and had not been sent to school..and also had physical evidence of physical abuse at the time he was removed.

So..he started 1st grade here and because the mom was poor, the social workers were like...sharks. They just wouldn't leave this poor mother alone. They insisted that the child's problems were purely a result of ADHD and demanded proof that he was getting ritalin before allowing her access to his report cards etc. They made her life miserable. She found a doc willing to prescribe and started him on it. He lost more weight, was agitated, cried a lot and couldn't sleep. So...she took him off the meds and told the school nurse he was getting an extended capsule that he only had to take in the mornings.

6 weeks later, she had another meeting with the psychologist, social worker, teacher and administrators...they all raved about the improvement in the child since he switched to the extended release formula. The truth...he had taken nothing and was in therapy to deal with what had happened.

PS...did anyone watch the film clip? The girl had acted out and the school then called the mom to pick her child up. When the mom couldn't come, the school decided to call the police. If I was the mom, I would sue the bajeezus out of the school district. If she had been a rich, white, sahm and had been able to come and pick up her daughter, no arrest would have been made.

path- and from the kid i saw in child psych last summer and the reports from the parents- it DOES happen regularly. i am not sure why they had to call the police in this situation.

Don't even get me started on tthe public school system! I have to CONSTANTLY keep my foot up EVERYONE's A$$ at my childs school to make sure my child gets the education she deserves. Unfortunately, many parents can't take the time off from work to be there and this is such a shame! As a former public school teacher, I am so embarrassed about this while situation!

This is just not acceptable behaviour from a school. It's a five year old we're talking about not a middle aged hardened crminal. No body calls the police on a misbehaving five year old.
I think Social services and sometimes school simply want to see problems where there is none, and at the same time sweep under the carpet the real problems. That poor little girl who was abused by her great-aunt in England and died because of it is proof of that.

I'm not a parent, and frankly I support using the most minimal of all physical punishments....but in some cases you might just need to spank/slap the child and it usually calms them down. I know from personal experience, as in me as a child.. :yes:

I really feel like screaming at these people to open their eyes adn get back to normalcy and just forget all that "political correctness" etc...

Lakshmi.

I'm still shocked. Unless if the child has mental problems, me as a mother and before I became one-- could have help this 5 year old to calm down. Why did they have to call the police and tight a 5 year old? What's happening with the world? :boggled:

This will damage this little girl for the rest of her life. Very scary situation.

I'd love to slap everyone involved No excuse to call the police :yes:

I only caught the end of the story on the news, but I think the school officials basically felt they had no other choice. There was something about the Mother threatening a lawsuit if they so much as laid a finger on this child... :rolleyes: . And the Mother was unable to come to the school when she was called. This info may or may not be true, but I think we have to respect that there are always two sides to a story. Not that handcuffing a young child is the answer :no: .

This actually isn't ture, although they way some media outlets are spreading it around it would seem that way. :rolleyes: The mother WAS able to come to the school but told them it would take an hour for her to get there. One hour is about how long it would take me to get to my daughter too because of the traffic in the DC metro area and the fact that I don't drive to work, I commute.

i'm not sure if the mtoher threatend to sue if they put a hand on her child or not but i know that school officials aren't supposed to put their hands on a child. so when you saw the video, the principal was trying to calm her down without touching her. so i wonder if just, like someone else said, she felt she had no other recourse. because when my son would do something like that i would pick him up and put him in timeout but she coudlnt' touch her. still like is aid things happen like this every day. how dod they usually handle it- they dont' call the poice i'm sure.
i heard someone say that it is illegal for them to have shot the video without the mom's permission too. as much of a behvaior roblem that the chidl may have been before, it's going to be worse now i fear after dealing with that. did they cart her off to jail too?

And...the girl was calm when the police arrived. She was sitting in a chair when the three officers came in and 'cuffed' her. I saw a more complete video on the news this am.

i saw the longer video too and they said the police had been called out to the school before for the child. so why hans't she been suspended or expelled? something doesn't add up.
another distrubing point. on msnbc, there is a poll an 47% of the people believe the school acted justly and from the comments i read most people support the police handcuffing that little girl.

wow.

The discussion that I saw said that the child had displayed this type of behavior before but only in the presence of the assistant principal. The mother had put in a request to move her child to a different school and this had been ignored by the district only a few months prior.

Apparently, the child was a discipline problem in the classroom. That being said, handcuffs for a 5 year old are not the answer. Where are the school social workers, etc. Good Lord, when my son couldn't get his snowpants on and was showing signs of stress in first grade (he kept going up to the teacher every 5 minutes to remind her that I was picking him up and he wasn't taking the school bus) I had to meet with the social worker, school psychologist, teacher, administrator etc. I heard a litany of "he can't tie his shoes, can't get his snowpants on, can't throw a ball, gets nervous and keeps going to the teacher for reassurance"....He was placed in a 'friendship group' to help him adjust (we had just moved here) and saw the school counselor individually for a few weeks to help. Also, we were given referrals into the community.

Why wasn't someone trying to get to the bottom of this child's acting out behavior? Why wasn't someone trying to help this family?

Am I being too emotional about this? Maybe I'm personalizing it. I just think that if this is an abused child or something that years from now she will look back and discover that she displayed all of the 'signs' but that instead of getting help she was ....arrested.

As much as I hate to "go here" I think we have to face what dental mom pretty much explicity stated in her post. If this child had not been poor and black her treatment would have been totally different. The fact that 47% of Americans believe the police action was justified only reiterates what I as a minority woamn already know. Not much has changed in Amercia as far as race is concerned.

I now have echos of that rap song "Ain't a dam thing changed" in my ear!

And did you guys see the story about the little black boy (~7 yo) that was so afriad of being handcuffed by police that he ran into the street, was hit by a car, and is now in a coma? Why is this story which happend recently only NOW getting some media attention?

The handcuffing of this small child is a reflection of the desparity in our schools, law enforcement, and parenting skills in this country.

How many big people does it take to detain a 5-year old??? The part I found most disturbing was the fact that once the police arrived the little girl was sitting unattended or restrained in a chair. Why were handcuffs necessary? What kind of emotional scars will she have a a young person? Why did the school feel compelled to use such a drastic form of discipline/detainment? We should be more concerned with our teenagers hauling guns & drugs in the lockers and teen pregnancy than an unruly 5 year old.

FYI: I agree with the previous post concerning this child's race. Again, it only mirrors the view of our twisted society. And although all people are not racist we know that some are.

pathdr2b, Oh my God! I didn't know about that 7 year old boy. See? That comfirms....what if he was white? I'll pray for that little boy and his family.

Are we sure we are living in year 2005?

Dental mom.

There is no excuse for treating a child like that. No wonder the seven year old was so afraid of cops he would brave moving traffic. I'm with you, Dental-Mom. A lot of changes have been legislated but sometimes it seems the people aren't much different, like society hasn't caught up with itself. I am young and just starting to understand that our society says one thing and lives another, with race and with gender issues.

Also, if the mother did not want a school official touching her child, that is the mother's right. This point is close to home for me because I happened to see a teacher in my toddler's daycare(part of a larger school that goes through eighth grade) hit a baby when I picked her up two weeks ago. I took my daughter out of that daycare so fast it made their heads spin, but with a five year old, you just don't have that option and not trusting the officials, would you want to wonder how hard they are hitting your child when you aren't around?

:yikes:

Good Lord!

I also would not allow the schools to use corporal punishment with my children. I think it's a little ridiculous that if I were to get caught spanking my daughter in public, the police could be called, but I could give the schools permission to do it behind closed doors and it would be ok.

I think the parents need to be the final decision-makers when it comes to disciplining the children. If little Johnny acts up, mom and dad get called and little Johnny will get the discipline doled out at home...a spanking, loss of privileges or...whatever the parents choose.

Man...I hadn't heard about the 7 year old either. Things sure are screwed up.

Here are some facts, as I understand them. The mother has not accepted any accountability for her child's actions. The child's behavior was inappropriate and the school's staff was unsuccessful at calming the child down. The school was given instructions by the mother that they are not allowed to touch the child. The school decided to call the police to help prevent the child's violent and destructive actions. The reality of the world we live in is that a person is held accountable for their actions. There is a cause and effect. I guess these people are above that.
I feel badly for the school and the police department because they will be facing a lawsuit from the child's family. Why doesn't the school sue the family for bringing negative attention to the school? Why doesn't the principal sue the school for having such a hostile work environment? It must have been traumatizing for the school staff to be in that situation. I'll tell you why...because they are people of character. The school and police deserve a thumbs up for resolving the conflict.
I also feel badly for all the delusional people on this site. Many people put their children on such a high pedestal. How dare you stop my child from doing whatever they want. My child is now traumatized for the rest of their life because they are held accountable for their actions. How are handcuffs traumatizing? You people are absolutely ridiculous and way too sensitive. Do you have any idea how people in other countries live? I know what you're going to say, and no, this is not the best country in the world. It's one step away from military imperialism. Go ahead, look it up because you probably don't know what it even means. Despite this I guarantee that you already dismissed me as being wrong. Also, look up what the Patriot Act is and how it relates to what Hitler did when he came to power. Here's a quote from James Madison.."No nation can preserve its freedom in the midst of constant warfare". The war on terrorism is just that---a never-ending war that can never be won.
Here's your wake up call------Get a life you self-righteous morons. You are so liberal with your children but the first to cry when Janet Jackson shows a part of her natural body. Guess what...chances are if the child is this young and is violent, as she gets older, her actions will likely get worse if she is not held accountable for her actions. In that event, I suggest that she get used to handcuffs.
Keep it real

:laughing: :laughing:

Man, I needed a good laugh today. You have to be fawking kidding me. No one here said anything about the child or parent not being responsible for their own actions.

It was, however, inappropriate for a 5 year old child who was calmed down and sitting in a chair to be arrested and taken away in handcuffs.

The mother was on her way....I think appropriate would have been suspending the child and mandating counseling for the family for the child to return. This has actually been used in the schools here.

There are protocols for schools to go through in dealing with situations like this...that can get result without arresting 5 year olds. I have yet to talk to a teacher who feels that what happened was appropriate.

Now is this really necessary? I didn't have a problem with Janet's boob although I think she should be careful about placing such heavy objects on "objects" that are heading south as we speak( unless of course, she gets another breast job).

But I'm now wondering, is it OK to handcuff a two year old for having a tantrum in the grocery store? What the child did in the video is NOTHING compared to what I've seen 2 year-olds do in toy stores!!!!

Yet another example of what I am talking about. Dear Geniuses, the reason why my post is funny is because my comments bring to light the ignorance of most of these people. I'm exaggerating points to the other extreme to demonstrate how ridiculous most of these posts are. The reason why I mention accountability is 1. Because the fact is the mother of this child has not once admitted her child has done any wrong. Is it a far cry to suggest the possibility that people find it difficult to find fault in themselves?
2. I have not seen any focus on this site surrounding the idea of holding the child or parent accountable or giving credit to the authorities for preventing any further conflict. The school admitted that they were pleased with how their staff handled the situation. They followed their protocols. You can debate which protocols are better, but that's philosophy. There will always be people that say it could have been handle better, but most of them have no idea what the reality is like. The cops got the job done. They are who you call when you cannot handle a situation of this nature. They told her the last time she was there that they would handcuff her. What's wrong with this parent? If I had the cops come to my school when I was a kid, I would be in some deep crap and my parents would not be nitpicking how it was handled (no laws were broken here-it was handled by the law within the means of the law). My parents would be concerned that they were not doing a good enough job parenting. These peoples are way out of line. All that you special, gifted, enlightened parents care about is that the resolution was inappropriate.
If someone commits a crime and is "just sitting there quietly" afterwards, should we just say OK and drive them home and call it a day? Big deal--this criminal (committed assault on video) is a child. Oh lord jesus, you can't treat little Johnny like that. If handcuffs are traumatizing to anyone, I'd have to say that you need some mental help because you have some deeper problems that would best be not left unattended. If that made her fearful, well good--she should be. Maybe it will keep her out of jail. There is nothing wrong with being afraid to some degree. Fear, for example, can prevent you from walking on the edge of a cliff and falling. I just don't get it people.....my girlfriend didn't have any problem when I handcuffed her.
Are they any other brilliant enlightened comments???
As always, keep it real

Hi path...you raise a good point. My view is if a 2 year old child is in a grocery store, most likely they are with a parent or guardian. If the child acts up, the store should confront the adult. If the behavior continues, particularily if the violent actions are towards customers or damaging property, I would ask them to leave the store. The adult should be responsible for any damages. If they refuse to leave, the authorities should be contacted. If the adult still cannot control the child's violent actions with the police present, then the police have every right to detain both of them--especially the adult.

Hi undertone,
I'm a little curious. How have you dealt with it when one of your twelve children has acted up in a store? Do you, as the very experienced parent you must be, consider your children at five years old to be capable of understanding what a crime is? When I was five I did not fully understand that Arkansas street, which my parents lived off of, was much different from the state of Arkansas. I convinced my younger brother to cut his eyelashes with a pair of scissors I found. I certainly did not understand the consequences of all of my actions. No five year old can understand the consequences of all actions.
Before you begin to insult me and my fellow mommd friends because of what you may see as my ignorance, understand that although at age five I was unsure of what was going on in the world, with the guidance and love of my parents, teachers, and the world around me I was able to graduate from college at 18. No one here claims to be a genius, but we are certainly not ignorant. Although I was not a fully functional member of our society at age 5, as no 5-year-old can be expected to be, I was protected and respected by the adults(parents, teachers, and police) around me and now that I am an adult I understand the laws of our country and can expect to be punished if I do not follow them.

momcat- very well said :yes:
I can tell undertone is the type of person who gives me an evil look when my 2 yr old cries at the grocery store.All babies cry and all children throw tantrums at some point in their life! There is no need to treat mothers like they are child abusers when children misbehave.

Is anyone going to answer my question? I guess it is easier to lash back without providing any real insight or intelligent response.
Here's the bottom line for all of you. What happened was handled within the means of the law. If u don't like it, write to your local congressman. No one put the kid in prison or harmed her. I think it was good for her and it will surely help her understand the ways of the world given that her mother has failed thus far.
Also, for all of you people that think this was a racial incident, where's the proof of that? You're just looking for the opportunity to complain. Here's some news for you....there was a white child 7 years old that had the same thing happen to them after this incident. I guess that was racially motivitated too.

As far as the assumption made of me, I will assure you they are as ignorant as most of the opinions on this site. I'll tell you it is rare that I see children acting up in my supermarket. Congrats to the parents. On the rare occassion that I do, my heart goes out to the parent as it does take great patience.
Keep it real

We try to keep our debates civil. People might be more likely to take you seriously if you didn't call them stupid delusional morons in your first post. However, no one is going to have a serious debate with you now, you will probably just be ignored.

In the future, please keep to the debate and leave out the insults and name calling.

Thanks drey and the rest of you. i was trying to think of a good way to say this but decided it wasn't worth the time or effort. anyone who thinks it is more intelligent to call names isn't worth the debate. but given the tone of the poster's messgaes- more like "overtones"- he/she probably takes our ignoring them as a sign of his/her "superior" intelligence.

I suspect undertone is someone very familiar to mommd. Isn't the internet W-O-N-D-E-R-F-U-L!!!!!

I understand. It's OK for you to criticize people, but when I do, it is bad judgment. I guess me calling people ignorant is worse than some of you accusing people of racism.
I usually am civil, but I consciously decided to stoop to your level. Well, I would like to thank you because I clearly proved my point on several levels.
:wave:

Sigh.... :rolleyes:

He he..I quote:

"Here's the bottom line for all of you. What happened was handled within the means of the law. If u don't like it, write to your local congressman"

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

BTW if *you* do not like how this country is doing/running/politics/insert whatever...go talk to your congressman :laughing: or better yet move OUT!

I think this person is a TROLL so beware people! just registered on April 29th to start caca with this thread :scratchchin: and 12 kids? sure.

I actually think this person is really a dude honey, I say as I snap my fingers in circle! Or would this be a "Z snap" ??? :laughing:

i think HE's a 10 year old!

just so i can be clear as much as a moron can, it is not the criticism that i take issue with but the name calling that i see as unneccesary and immature. a debate but its very nature will have some criticism but it got to be so un worth it when you took it to the playground.

that would explain the username. hmmm...

I know a mom of 13 children (no twins) and she's the most calm, kind and sweet mother I know! :twocents: :footinmouth:

Dental mom.

"Originally posted by undertone:
I usually am civil, but I consciously decided to stoop to your level. Well, I would like to thank you because I clearly proved my point on several levels."

Whatever his point was, Undertone has proven it only to himself. To those of us who belong to the mommd community, he has proven only that he is an irritation and by jumping into our conversation with his insults he has stopped cold our debate. If you are still lurking out there undertone, know that you do not understand the spirit of this group enough to either raise yourself to our level or to prove any points with us.

Dental-Mom: 13 children...WOW! I stand in awe of large families and hope to one day have one of my own. When I suggested to my husband an even dozen, he nearly fainted and now has talked me down to six. Props to your friend.

momcat, 6 children? Are you sure?

Have 2 and then let's talk about large families! :yes:

But, since I'm in USA then you will know how that goes..... :boxedin: My 2 boys fill my heart.

Dental mom.

And going back to the original subject, I don't care if this child has dicipline problems, or what they say now that her mom sold that video for money? ...I don't care. No child should be treated that way :no:

I think that you do need to have kids face up to consequences of their actions, but only AFTER they are able to comprehend that there ARE consequences. A 10 year old can grasp this concept. A 5 year old cannot.

wow 13 kids?!! 6 kids?!! i wanted 4 but now 1 is running me ragged! i think a large family has the potential to be fun though.

regarding the case, i think we are missing so many pieces to the story that it is nto funny. doesn't it seem that way? i am not saying that there is ever a reason to cuff a 5yo but the police and the shcool are saying that they are acting accordingly. are they trying to cover up something or what? something makes em think that they were fed up w/ this family and mom- the little girl has been a terror and the camera wasn't accidentally running. they planned it and covered themselves somehow. but then they set them selves up for all kinds of suits so like i said i thin kthere is more to the story on all sides.

Very true that we don't have all the datails. I agree that a 10 yr old understands....but a 5 yr old is not going to understand this much.

The whole thing is sad. The most important person here is that child.

I just came back from helping in my son's K class. I looked at all those kids.....they can not understand this much....no way! At this age just calling the parents is more than enough.....

Dental mom :boggled:

Oh, and what about that run away bride? Poor woman!

Almost 9 yrs ago at age 21, I too like most brides was VERY stressed out. But I did blow once a week, and made my wishes clear :boggled:

Man...that runaway bride is just a nut job. I don't feel sorry for her at all after finding out that she planned her departure days in advance AND lied to the police about being abducted.

well... just read the posts and decided to jump in, I've got only 4 kids and am stopping there! anyhoo... cuffing a 5 yr old is over the top, where I live a social worker would most likely accompanied the police and dealt with the situation, also most cops I know love kids and likly would have taken a seat there and just waited for mom to arrive, guess thoses big strong dudes were scared??
As for the runaway bride, what she did was wrong but sharia law (tradional islamic law)can be rather scary too!

anyone notice the pop up window that shows up when you click on the video link in the original post? Undertone networks... hmmmm coincidence? Perhaps this is a sad systems administrator who noticed numerous hits coming from users of this site and just thought he'd stir some s#$t. just a thought.