OK
S.ex...
Well some things I'd like to discuss or have discussed here are:
1. Why is s.ex such a hush-hush topic?

2. Why can't we (men & women) be HONEST about sex?

a.If asked by a friend how often I have sex,I find myself adding to the ACTUAL amount per month. What does it really matter? Why do I feel that I should be having sex x # of days /month to be "normal"?

b. Why do women (most in my opinion) tend to lie about how many sexual relationships they have had prior to THIS one? It's a double standard. Guys with more experience are thought of as experienced. Women on the other hand would be considered "loose", "slut", "easy"....whatever. Aren't those same guys having sex with these same women?

c. And what about the "big O"? Why is it portrayed in movies & tv as happening with such ease & in multiples too? Ie. Sex and the City's Samantha character who humps just about anything that moves and has orgasms without trying.

Some of the reasons for these questions come from questions asked by patients when they come in for paps. Is it normal? Am I weird? Where is the truth about sex to come from?

Hi!
Sounds like a Conference seminar topic to me!
Especially since I just read in a paper on Vulvadynia (chronic female genital pain) that some patients have trouble finding care because the doctors they go to get flustered talking about S-E-X.

And with shows like "Sex and the City" showing hyper-sexed characters having uber-orgasms with one guy after another, it's bound to have a lot of women wondering "what's wrong with ME?".
My personal answer
Nothing's wrong with most women!!
How about you and your husband leave your kids with the Grandparents for a long weekend, and send you to a spa/hotel on Friday with hubby meeting you for a mini-honeymoon on Saturday/Sunday? It's amazing what a decent night's sleep, a little self-care and being away from having responsibility for the lions share of the household responsibilities will do for a woman's sex drive!
If your sex drive doesn't go up after that, THEN worry!
:-)

Sex therapists often say the toughest thing about female arousal is that FIRST you have to see if it's emotional or from just plain exhaustion!

Great Topic! Anyone know one of the Dr. Bermans?
Think we could get them to drop in and comment?

-Dr.Soon

Dr Soon
Thanks for your comments.

I think you touched on an important point. As physicians, patients will turn to us for answers to their questions. And it can be difficult for us to discuss with them.

I usually try to ask about pain with intercourse during my annual paps, but I don't venture too much further- some due to time, some due to my discomfort as well. Heck, I don't have all the answers but will try to direct patients to a place they might find the info.

At a recent PE/pap, a patient timidly asked about orgasms. She stated she had never had one in prior relations & wasn't sure what they would feel like and as she wasn't in a relationship currently she wanted to know about vibrators.

OK - not a question I get asked too often. I tried as best I could to alleviate her anxiety about orgasm , that many women cannot experience them through intercourse alone. That it isn't like in the movies but does feel good when experienced. As I was not (or was not at the time well versed in vibrators- now I at least know about the hitachi) prepared for such a question, I seemed at a loss. I did explain between internal and external versions and that it is most likely preference when choosing between the two.

I bet in other circumstances, she may have felt foolish and wanted out as quick as possible. But at least I didn't laugh. I thought about the question more and wondered how comfortable I would be to discuss such an issue with my OB/GYN. I only see her once a year so the closeness isn't really there. But isn't that the typical patient? In for her annual. Unless there's a problem. But in a 15-30 min visit how much can you really talk about such delicate issues?

Just wondering how many get these type questions from their patients and how you deal with them in short visits when you also need to discuss birth control, safe sex, calcium reequirements & mammos.

Also where do you refer patients for more info? Books? Websites? Therapists? ???

What an interesting topic! I find my situation to be a little different than Dr. MOO's. I have no problem discussing sexual concerns with my patients, both male and female. As a neurologist, this comes up quite often. While I may not have all of the answers for them, I don't have a problem telling them what I do know. However, I have a heck of a time talking to my kids about sexual issues. When my older children asked me how the baby got in my stomach, I told them, "God put it there." While I do believe that children are a blessing from God, I said this to avoid the sex talk. I can talk to patients all day long about their sexual difficulties but I have a very hard time talking to my kids about basic anatomy and human sexuality. Is this anyone else's experience? :scratchchin:

Hi Momof3,

I have quite the opposite issue with my kids. I find that I want to tell them everything when they ask - it feels very natural to me and I feel silly not answering their questions properly. I have given them somewhat vague answers however, because they are only 6, 5 and 3, and quite frankly I am afraid that other parents are going to FREAK OUT :boggled: :yes: if my kids tell their kids this stuff. Hehehe.

Mimi

Hi All-
Heck, Mimi- considering that most kids get their info on sex from their peers, you're providing a GREAT public service by being open with your kids- they'll pass it on! :goodvibes:

My folks were always VERY frank and up-front about sex, and I passed that info and "myth-busters" along to my friends all the time in Jr High, High School.

So really for me, the trouble is I can be TOO frank for some folks. :boggled:

Teaching theory calls it "Creating the teachable moment". :p

momof3:
interesting that it seems more difficult with your kids
I do try to get some questions asked ie any difficulty with erections? & any pain with intercourse for women. It's the "do you have any questions or problems about sex that you want to talk about?" that I have problems with. Also in a 15 min visit seeing a diabetic/HTn patient on many meds, I am sure there are many side effects of meds and due to disease priocess anyway, but I don't get around to asking about the sex problems. I really need to work on that.

mimicat & drsoon:
great that you are so open with the kids. I think that helps them feel open to ask questions.

drsoon-
thanks for those suggestions. I have actually recommended the Great vibrations web site before. I think that way patients can peruse at their leisure. I found it facinating myself

This I just have to jump in on! I was talking to a friend who said she absolutely has to have an O EVERYDAY - she couldn't believe that all of us who were there at the time did not. She thought we were abnormal and vice versa... I mean everyday, I don't even wash my hair everyday!!! A piece of cake everyday, no problem??!!

ANyone else?

P.s. she has two kids and has maintained this everyday for YEARS

OK OK OK

That is just insane!! EVERY DAY??!!! I'd be unable to walk. And what if you aren't in the mood? Isn't she ever exhausted? That just can't be right.

I am happy with a once a week kinda thing IF not tired or rushed or otherwise not talking to my husband - I mean if I ain't talking to him I sure ain't playing nookie with him! :no: And snuggling on the couch is one of my favorites - kinda our Friday night movie special - And NO SEX. What a great deal I say!

Hey if she likes it daily and her man is up to it and she can get to the big O in the sky EVERYDAY- then I say more power to her! But glad that's not me.

I have to get into this conversation! Why is it that women don't talk about this? How did we get to a social system where it is taboo to discuss sex? I think I would prefer a system where young men and women are taught about themsleves and the opposite sex. I wanted to give my view on this subject from the other side. I had never had the big O and felt very much like there was something worng with me, especially since my husband made such a big deal about it like he was a failure or something. I'm sure that he wasn't trying to make me feel bad but it did, it made me HATE sex whereas I had always been a very sexual person, so I thought. I was in my mid-20s before I finally got up the courage to find out more about "my problem". Still, I didn't feel that I could ask my doctor about it. Whenever I had tried to ask about other things, they were always short with me so I felt that no doctor wanted to talk about this. I ended up researching on the net, in the dark, while everyone else was asleep because I just didn't feel normal and I hated that it was causing a riff in my marraige. I found a great site by an MD in New York and I started to feel like there was some hope. After reading some wonderful books that his site suggested and making a few other purchases, we finally figuired it out together! There wasn't anything wrong with us all along, we just didn't know what we were doing! So, to end this, I think MDs should make themselves more approachable, especially those who deal with issues of the genital area most of the time. I would loved to have found someone to talk to about this years ago, or to have been taught as a young adult. However, since we aren't even suppose to teach sex education, how are we suppose to teach young adults how their "sexual" bodies work?

WAY TO GO EMILY!!! :yes:

That is exactly what I am saying! Why can't we talk more openly to help each other with these very personal/ intimate issues.

As a doc, I also want to be able to answer those questions more easily for others as well. But as Emily said, there is still some taboo about the sex issues.

emily - glad you found what was helpful. if you don't mind, I'm curious about that site you found.

um, Emily,
do u mind sharing the site?
i have been married for 2 years and have comlrtely lost my sex drive since day 1. it has nothing to do w/stress because i was off for 3 months b-4 med school and v.relaxed. we still do some form of sexual activity almost daily, but i am just not into it. none of it. nort intercourse, not oral, nothing. any advice? i have been todoctor, he says notjhing is wrong. anyone feels same?

1.Honestly, how often do you have sex? Per month?

I would have to say that between my long hours and DH's as well, we get some action between the sheets maybe once a week if we're lucky.

I couldn't imagine the energy it would take for me to have sex daily. Sometimes I'm just glad to hit the shower & climb into bed for some shut eye. and a lot of the time I just don't feel like I'm in the mood or want to even try to get in the mood. Does anyone fake it?

2. What if you are angry with/at your spouse? Do you still do the deed?

I wouldn't want anywhere near him then! But I hate going to bed angry anyway. But it isn't usually make-up sex either

3. Do you feel more or less horny than your spouse? Or want sex more or less often than your spouse? If so, how do you compromise?

For me, I usually am the less horny one. I do feel somewhat guilty when I put off my husband. I know I shouldn't but at times I do. He's usually ok with taking care of things on his own if need be.

like i said, we do it pretty much daily, but we are in our mid-twenties, i am i first yeay, hubby has a 9-5 job, no kids. so we have the time...
but the mood factor? if it was up to me, i would be never in the mood, my hubby is always in the mood (hopefully it will get better w/age). we are still newlyweds- 2 years- so i think our level of activity is normal. what is not normal, is to have zero desire, and this sometimes hurts ny husbands feelings becasue he says that i don't even let him try to pleasure me. he is v.kind and knows that there is more work for a woman, but i am more like lets get this over with. honestly, this has been one of the biggest disappointments forme. we used to fool around all the time when we were dating but the "horniness" went away

confused about sex,

do you think it due to the stressful change being in med school?

or are you somewhat upset, even subconsciously, with your husband that hasn't been addressed?

if you had the drive before, when did it change? was it sudden or gradually?

have you had a PE & checked hormones etc? are you on OCPs? They can affect sex drive as well.

there can usually be something easily fixed if only the cause (physically or psychologically) is found.

I had just gotten married just before graduating med school- so had a move to a new city & the strangeness of living together which we had not done before PLUS my horrendous schedule as an intern. Let me tell you! I don't even remember seeing my husband much that year much less have sex- if I did have sex I was surely asleep at the time But years later - it took some time before I wasn't truly exhausted or stressed with both marriage and residency before we got to know each other again.

I'm still waiting for emily to post that site that helped her- there may be some good tips that could help. emily.....where are you????? we really want to know that web site you mentioned.....yohooo.....are you there.....emily....

maybe that'll help get her some cyberspace vibes :crossfingers:

thanx for the advice. it's not due to stress, i had pretty much a year where i did nothing and it diodn't come back, i got checked out w/hormones and things were fine. i can't think of any reason and this is what sucks- i used tonot be able tobelieve that married people don't like sex. this is my plan- it's som that i should have done when i had free time- but during winter break iam going to get sex books, toys, etc and i am goingto try- my husband really wants me to enjoy sex because he says otherwise he feels too selfish always initiating it for him. sex and the city is my favorite show and they make it look so easy, but it's going to take work.

ok people, share your secrets, especially the big "O"
i'll start, back in the day when i was in the mood for this stuff, i could only have one through, ummm, "clitoral stimulation". anyone else?
p.s i hope that wasn't too much for most people, i hope we could get a good discussion going!

Some advice from a baby boomer...
When I hit college, they passed out the "Our bodies, Our Selves" handout under the dorm door. I have subsequently read lots of stuff. It helped to have experience and be able to fool around in the age of the pill and prior to herpes and HIV. One has to learn to have orgasms. If you haven't experimented, maybe you will just luckily learn to have orgasms with sex, but I think that you need to find out what you like. It matters what techniques are used and what he does. How experienced is he?? Porn movies (mostly made for men) are not good training videos for teaching him what might work. Straight missionary intercourse with little foreplay does not reliably work for most women, and there are other positions that have relatively little success because of lack of stimulation of the sensitive spots.
Another excellent book is Lonnie Barbach, "For Yourself", a book discussing female masturbation. Try something. Once you learn what is pleasurable to you, you can then direct a partner. Or you can add a vibrator to penile-vaginal stimulation and you could be quite surprised.

mommidala

thanks for the recommended book- will check it out on Amazon


You hit on the fact that one had to learn & figure things out in order to know what worked for them.

I missed out on this step- I grew up in a family where sex was not openly discussed. I did not feel comfortable asking my mom about such things.

Do women/teens ask/talk to their mothers about sex advise? I would think yes for matters about their body etc, but actual advise re: sex, is that done? I never had that.

Also the learning part really does involve active learning (having sex or masturbating) to find out what works for you. When did most of you begin this process? For me it was after I was married. A little late I know but I had never really thought of myself as a sexual person.

When does one actual start considering themselves as a sexual being? When did you?

Does religion play any role in your sexuality?

I have had to overcome some issues in that area as well. Man, to have sex - sure is complicated stuff! :boggled:

I, too, was pretty frank with my daughter about sex. I knew that WHEN she asked me about sex, in specific terms, I would be open and honest. Besides, you can bet that when your child comes to YOU for answers he/she has probably heard atleast 10 other different definitions! :boggled: So, he/she is probably coming to you for confirmation/clarification.
I did, however, go through some anxiety AFTER the fact. I feared other parents would have a coronary if my daughter shared this information. So, I did tell her it was not an appropriate subject to discuss at school or with friends. That it was the responsibility of the parents to discuss the matter with their children. But I wouldn't feel bad if she DID explain it to a friend...it's going to be brought up...it's inevitable! I also felt a bit worried about how my ex would handle it. He was a bit shocked that I had to explain it when she was almost 8 and felt I was too "graphic". But, when she asked, I just gave her the answer...I really didn't feel it would be right to give her the "daddy plants a seed in mommy's tummy" story again...obviously, she wasn't buying it anymore! :rotfl:

HURRAY FOR YOU LADIES. Great to see us discuss things like this. Did you know that drugstore.com sells sensual items.... I was trying to get a link that would give some commission to MomMD but it doesn't seem to work yet. Anyhow, a whole new way to show your support for MomMD!! :rotfl:

Here is the link http://www.drugstore.com/templates/browse/default.asp?catid=21298

Sethina

Boy this is a great topic. I have a 7 1/2 year old that might be hearing to much at school. She has come to me a few times and ask how babies are born. The first thing that came out of my mouth was, here dh you want to explain. I never thought I would do that. Well she only had the daddy plants the seed talk this time. But I have a feeling we should discuss it further. I do not want others telling her wrong info. But 7 years old that is young. :cloud9:

Also I rememember my mother giving me a book and asking me if there is any questions I would like to ask. I did not want to talk about this at all, so she left it at that. Later I did ask many questions.

Great topic,
Michelle

My children and I had "the talk" this last summer. At their ages 11 and 8 we didn't get REAL specific but it was appropriate for their level. It happened without me thinking about and AFTER the conversation I realized what had happened. The conversation went something like this.....

I have a collection of money banks....70 of them to be exact. They have been collected throughout the years since I was a young child. One of them is a cream colored "sperm" looking bank with the words "sperm bank" printed on the side. I thought it was extremely funny when I purchased it and added it to my collection. However in the midst of 70 banks I had all but forgotten about it. This summer I was packing away some of them (they just take up too much room) and my children were helping me wrap them in paper. My 8 year old picked the "sperm" and asked "what is this?" I answered, "oh, that's a sperm"
"What IS a sperm" she asked
"Well....babies come from a part of the mommy and a part from the daddy. This looks like the part that comes from the daddy"
"oh....and how do the part of the mommy and the part of the daddy come together?"
"Well, the mommy and daddy lay real close together"
she looked concerned, "I lay close to my daddy sometimes....."
I smiled and answered, "yes but the mommy and daddy have to be NAKED next to each other!"
There was dead silence as my two children thought about what I had said. My 8 year olds face began to look HORRIFIED..."BUT YOU HAVE CHILDREN???!!!"
"Yes I do. I have you!!" I answered
"So.....you and daddy have layed close together NAKED?"
"Yes."
There was stunned silence and then my 8 year old blurted disgustedly.... "OH, THAT'S GROSS"

so much for sex ed.

OH YESSSSS (excuse the pun) I also needed to do THE talk soon, no matter how painful the process . I broke the iceberg a few days ago cause my 7 yr old was saying some weird things
" mummy look those people are sexing" when she saw to people kissing and "so &so has a boyfriend and her mummuy allows him to sleep over and she says they have sex" OKAAAAY. So I found this resource,
http://www.aboutourkids.org/articles/sexual.html
great articles for beginners. I called them (7&6 yr olds)3yr old toddled along, "is there anything that you are seeing, hearing or wondering about sex" hysterical laughter at the word sex, but the worst I got was " ma will I have to have sex when I grow up?" I wanted to shout NO NO NO NO absoultly not. So I have not explained the DEED, I thought I will let them bring it up, I don't know, but I will keep asking them if they have any more ques. I must say I an glad I have made a start, because the word sex was never mentioned in our house, when I got my period at 16 i got a book and my mum said " here read this, your a women now" The articles mentioned raise some interesting points about raising kids in the world today. So for now I am rehearsing my answers.

I got the books when my mother got pregnant with my sister. Apparently she felt she had sufficiently extended herself there, so I was delegated to have the talk with my younger brother and sister! I put it off and put it off until my brother came home from school asking what the words in a song some of his classmates were singing on the bus meant. Explaining the terms pretty much covered the bases, so aside from being very awkward I think it went alright. With my sister I sat down and went over the biology and more of the periods and cramps area, since she had heard some things from friends and gotten pretty worried. I have to say that I don't relish the thought of having to go over it all again...but maybe I can pass the buck to my husband next time

Try http://www.blowfish.com/ , too.

Yeah, I don't know what it is. Kind of shocking, how tightlipped we are about it. But I think it goes right along with most Americans' near-total out-of-touchness with their own bodies. Above the neck, alive. More or less. Below the neck...well, that's what clothing's for, right? I'll skip my usual soapbox on retaining use of legs, exercise, etc., but it'd go here.

I've noticed the same thing, btw, with both med students and doctors being very uncomfortable talking about sex. Never sure whether it's the potential for offense/litigation or the doctor's/student's inexperience or personal sense that sex is sort of universally inappropriate.

The disturbing part to me is how the not-talking leaves young people as completely ignorant as I was
when they get to college. Which makes it very hard for them to figure out what's OK. (I wonder how much of that contributes to date rape and other traumatic sexual experiences in college.) I still get shockingly ignorant sex questions from undergraduate friends (like "do condoms really work") that make me wonder if this is an inadvertant side effect of abstinance-ed programs. These days, the lack of real talk about sex also seems to leave them very blase about the threat of STDs, including AIDS. It just doesn't seem to be on their radar. Very different from the mid-late 80s.

My own sex-ed consisted of a set of diagrams presented by my mom when I was nine ("Ew, gross!" She was very relieved) and the hormone parade in jr-hi health classes. Not enough! I'd like to shield Liesl from any understanding of the, er, force of preeteen & teenage boy sexual need till she's well out of highschool, but there are some talks we'll have, and, well, she is just down the hall from her parents' room. As for her own sexual awakeness and awareness, I hope she'll be willing to talk with me about what she's feeling, what she's curious about.

As for orgasms every day... Whoo-hoo! Over here, please. Actually I'll go weeks without being interested, then have a stretch of days to months where it's gotta happen. Gotta. And does. Not a fan of the toys, despite the link. But I wholeheartedly recommend the Liquid Silk lube.

amy

:rotfl: :rotfl:

I love that! My response at the time would have been the same- thinking of my parents having sex still gives me the heebiejeebies

Great responses from all.

I especially like those links - amyk---WOOOOW blowfish kinda blows your mind - i'm still checking some stuff out!!

7 yo's that seems so young to be getting info at school (from other kids)

wow- i was more the dweeb that was clueless until jr high

I'm glad to hear that most if not all of you are willing to answer questions as they arise- especially when so early. Koodos for you. Your kids will be so much better prepared and knowledgeable for the real world.

Sad, but I had a college student who can in for abd pain. oh & by the way hadn't had a period since 7/03. nurse asked if she was sexually active. "No" Do you think you might be pregnant? "No"

So I go in and ask "have you ever had sex? "oh yea" I guess "active" threw her off ????

Do you use condoms - "yes" always..."yes" Ever missed one time or had one break "no...maybe one time"

& get this, she had done 2 home pregnancy tests in 8/03 And both were negative- so no way she could be pregnant! I haven't had sex since then.

OOKKKK
So off to lab she went & sure enough Big Bright POSITIVE. She was so shoked! "is the test wrong?" I did 2 tests 2 months ago and they were negative" this can't be.

so sex ed was discussed and dating of last period etc went into play. I felt bad for this teenager _ over 18 at least but she didn't have a clue.

So go moms go. Teach those kiddos.

Maybe she thought "sexually active" meant "do you have a date tonight?" You know, if she broke up with a guy two or three weeks ago and wasn't having sex at the time you asked her, I could see why she'd say "no." Might be helpful to ask "when was the last time you had sex" in sits. like that.

amy

amyk

my point exactly!

I even spoke with the office manager about changing their health history/intake form because I believfe this is usually inadequately answered based on the patient's perception.

"nope, i haven't had sex today, so nope not active"

I do ask as you said, "when was the last time you had sex" and go from there

Anyone else notice this problem?

I'm studying for a cultural geography exam right now and ran across an interesting figure from Switzerland in my textbook that I think is kinda cute...so I thought I'd share!

The top 6 answers mothers give to their children when asked "Where do babie come from?"

1. Stork
2. Purchased at a store
3. Cabbage or pumpkin
4. Church, chapel, or monastery
5. Hollow tree or log
6. Monks of the forest

I've never heard of anyone saying their baby just sprouted out of a log...=) Too cute!

Soory it took so long to get back with everyone. I have blocks next week so I have been cramming. I don't have the site saved on my computer but as soon as I find it, I will pass it on. I remeber that it was through an MD I think from New York but I will have to find it again. As for the books, I think I will be heading to the bookstore this weekend and cen get the info from there. They are all listed on the website, if I can ever find that.

As for the rest fo the discussion, I most definately belive in toys, now that we know how to get the most out of them. And I can't agreee more that you have to know yourself first. How was I suppose to expect him to know what I wanted when I didn't know!?

Also, after we got all of the facts and started making progress, I enrolled him in a "Human Sexuality" class for credit towards his degree. :goodvibes: That was the best class he has ever taken! He has learned so much more patience for me now and he has a better understanding of my body and his.

Anyway, I have to run cram some more. I will get that site and stuff soon.
Emily

Good luck with exams Emily

I think this was the strangest I've heard- logs? nope

where did I come from Mom?
well, dear, you see, there was this angel, yeah, and it flew down to sprinkle magic into mommy's belly button, yeah, and then you grew and grew, and then the angel came back and got you out of my belly button! Yup! That's where you come from, now eat your vegetables!

Dear CONUFUSED: we aren't supposed to give medical advice...but you could go to your MD and mention this- I went to an NP six weeks before my marriage ( bc after 9/11 and not seeing my fiance for four months my libido went into the gutter) and bascially suggested perhaps depression was playing a role in zero- sex-drive...
so she gave me alittle test ( written) and I got a bad score ( on a depression scale) and I came armed with some suggestions on which anti-depressant to use ( one with little sexual side effects)....
so I started on it...it worked for...three months or so ( increasing libido)...now I am back and work and once again have less than zero sex drive ( like you, I could go a yr and it wouldn;t bother me to skip it)... :guilty:

anyone else have zero libido while breast feeding? does it come back once the hormones settle down? When I was pregnant, sex was more pleasurable and more urgent than at any other time in my life, but now it's hard to imagine... having a baby sleeping beside you does in itself cut down on romance...I suppose... :scratchchin:

Yes, and yes. I'm still in the process of getting back to normal after my second child, but I have definitely noticed an increase in interest (not hard, starting from less than zero) in all that since stopping breastfeeding. Though the baby sleeping next to you can be quite useful, you know, if you're not interested! "Oh no! The baby woke up! Too bad."

I also noticed somewhat the same thing after my first.

Breastfeeding definitely made my interest in sex diminish. I can be a fairly willing participant, but there is no way I will initiate any action!! Fortunately I know that everything will be back to normal once I stop nursing for a while. I absolutely LOVE nursing my baby, so this is really the only down side in my opinion. Thank goodness my husband is understanding...he appreciates the benefits to him if I am nursing (I am willing to take all the night feedings etc.). I feel differently about it all this time around (number four). I guess because my experience tells me that everything will work out, and this is the last child I will ever breastfeed and I want to cherish it!

Wow, I haven't been on the forums for awhile, and look what I've been missing! The nice thing about being a psychiatrist is that I get to talk about this stuff all the time. I try to be pretty frank. I am amazed at how many women have never had orgasms, or aren't sure if they have or not, and also how many say their other doctors blew them off when they brought up these issues. It helps to have a 50 minute session (and preferably some history with the patient and some trust established) before you get to this stuff.

Personally, I was one of the second trimester wonder girls. If I could bottle that particular hormone blend forever, my husband and I would be SO happy. Now that we are in the routine of work and kids (and my toddler still doesn't sleep perfectly) it's a continual challenge and my libido really waxes and wanes, but the chief variable is clearly how tired I am. I have had to stress repeatedly to my wonderful husband that I'm much more available at 10 pm than at 11pm, and if he does the dishes there's a much better chance that I'll be available for other, more interesting activities. My recommendation: be blunt.

moved to debate forum....

No one has really touched on this.

Growing up Catholic, it was seen as wrong to have sex before marriage even though many did.

do the beliefs we have in our youth ( religion being one of them) affect or alter your sexuality today?

psych: Glad you joined in. As a psychiatrist you are more likely to see people with sexual problems & have the time to at least address & work on the issues better than in my FP 15 min slots.

My questions...
1.What are the main problems? You mentioned women not ever experiencing orgasms; What other problems do you usually see?
2. And causes of these problems? Trauma? Incest? Abuse? Childhood issues? I know there are many possible scenarios.
3. I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.
4. Do you send out many patients to sex therapists? Or are the problems more psychological?

I feel compelled to respond to the person who posted ZERO sex drive....I am in the same boat.
I have an almost revulsion to the process and have participated only to bring my two daughters into the world....otherwise it just seems so pointless. I went through a stage early in my 20's when I thought it had meaning, and I actively sought out partners, however I no longer feel that way. It's not that I don't have orgasm, I do, but recall that it lasts a fraction of a minute....too much work for very little reward. I'd rather go out and run 3-5 miles and get some long term effects for my energy expenditure. I know it sounds crazy but I'm ok with me.

ladies, you are too funny!

so many good points and questions have been brought up... i will probably forget some of the responses i want to give.

first, how often? usually 3-4 times per week, but we are young (mid 20s) and have no kids. during particularly busy and stressful weeks when both of us have just not felt up to it, we have wondered about how much harder it must be to keep the romance with kids to worry about.

sex drive? these days, mine is pretty hearty, but in the past, i have been through phases where i had zero interest. my ex had a huge sex drive and was not always very understanding about me not being in the mood THREE TIMES A DAY . i did it a lot just to keep him happy (or at least not mad), and that really killed my interest. my advice to the poster who is having daily sex, but doesn't enjoy it is to stop for a while. tell your husband it's an experiment and you want to see if your interest comes back if you stop forcing yourself to do it. this worked for me. i find that if i have sex when i don't really want to, then i get into a downward spiral and want it less and less. if i am honest about not being in the mood and don't do it for a while, the desire comes back. worth a try anyway.

the big O? yum. i try to make this happen as often as possible. i am not a purist in terms of how it happens, and i think that helps a lot. exploring on my own and finding out what worked for me and what didn't helped, as does being open to trying new things with my partner and being comfortable enough to say if i like it or not.

i had pretty good sex ed in school. my mom never really talked to me about sex, except to occasionally say it was wrong before marriage. in 5th grade, we had our first round of sex ed and to start, we had to take a quiz to see how much we already knew. one of the questions was "what is a wet dream?" i thought they meant bed wetting! well, my mom found out about the quiz, and asked me if i had any questions. i asked her about wet dreams, but she didn't really answer me, except for turning hugely red! the next day, she gave me the "What's happening to my body? book for girls". very informative. my brother got "dr. ruth talks to kids about sex", which i did not like as much.

:laughing:

drmoo55 --

The most common issues besides no orgasms is low sex drive, no sex drive, or "my husband has no sex drive and I do". The most common cause is definitely major depression. Second most common cause is general fatigue and busyness especially in young parents.

I think for women who don't have orgasms, lack of education is probably the most common issue. It seems that many women still think you have to be having intercourse to have an orgasm and don't know that most women need clitoral stimulation. Many women still have no idea about their anatomy and are really uncomfortable looking with a mirror or even touching themselves, or using real names like clitoris or vagina, especially in front of a partner but even in front of me. Some women have big fears about the mess, about getting UTIs from fecal contamination, about getting pregnant.

One underlying issue that often comes up is that the relationship is not safe for the woman, and low sex drive is more of a symptom of that. This isn't just in a domestic violence sense (although it can be) but in an emotional sense. So often I see women who have become sexually involved without any serious commitment on the man's part, and they know at some level that the relationship is not stable and safe. That is a BIG threat to a strong sexual relationship. Reading the newer books and research suggests that the best (and perhaps most frequent) sex comes between long-term, usually married, couples who have strong and stable relationships. It's not Hollywood, but it's probably true.

The other issue I educate people on is the ebb and flow of sexual life -- that parents with little kids are less likely to have time and energy for sex unless they are ruthless about protecting time and privacy for each other, but that as the kids get older, if the parents keep the relationship primary, mom's sex drive often returns and can even be stronger.

I was surprised how often I hear women complain about their husband's lack of libido. Major depression is still the biggest culprit, but another big culprit these days is Internet porn. In that case, it seems there is libido but it's getting used up before he gets to bed. That's really dangerous for relationships, and again reinforces that this is not a safe relationship for her because he is not keeping her his first priority.

Sorry for the ramble ... I do occasionally refer women with vulvodynia or vaginismus to an excellent female sexual physical therapist. More commonly, I do the psychotherapy and recommend books and lots of conversation with the partner. I recommend (and describe) sensate focus therapy. I also talk about religious beliefs -- particulary if someone grew up or still believes masturbation is wrong, I sometimes have to help patients be creative and consider what is appropriate within the context of their beliefs, and whether their beliefs are consistent with the variety of beliefs within their faith tradition.

PS, I can't believe I forgot to mention that many of my patients on SSRIs or Effexor or neuroleptics like Risperdal also notice delayed orgasm or inability to reach orgasm. There is no great treatment for this. Switching to Wellbutrin, Remeron, or Serzone is great if they work, but each has reasons why I might not use it in a given patient. Adding Wellbutrin to an SSRI hasn't been very successful for my patients. Viagra works well for men but not women in my experience. SO this is a big problem area still in my practice.

erm...having many male friends with this syndrome, including my husband as he describes his first marriage, my sense is this often has less to do with the pr0n than it does with the relationship. I don't know how many men have told me their wives are miserable to them in various ways, then expect to be serviced on demand. And I do mean serviced. Seems like most guys with reasonable self-esteem would rather hang out in the den for some one-handed surfing. So some couples counseling (or divorce, who knows) might be the answer, rather than an admonition to the guy.

Even healthy relationships can suffer from something that looks similar. Sex is a lot of work. At the end of the day, if you're both in bed, both sleep-deprived but feeling the need to get off, self-service may seem a little depressing, but it does get the needs met fast. If that's all that's happening, sure, that needs fixing. But if there's a real sexual relationship in there too, I don't see the harm.

=) And in my experience, when the relationship and libido are both working, no amount of porn gets in the way of fun in bed. Quite the contrary.

amy

this is interesting... i my sweetheart recently started taking wellbutrin as part of a strategy for quitting smoking (HURRAY!!!!!!!), and i have definitely noticed a decline in his libido. i did a little research and read that wellbutrin generally has little or no sexual side effects, but this has not been our experience. actually, it is like night and day - takes a lot of work on my part to get him going, whereas usually he is a very sexual person. i am v. proud of him for quitting smoking, but i sure hope his sex drive returns!

I was on Zoloft briefly before I became pregnant. If I'd been on it much longer I might never have become pregnant. :rotfl: But seriously, I was proscribed Wellbutrin on top of the Zoloft, and I was able to get aroused but never climax...

Then, when pregnant, suddenly in the 2nd trimester, I became the most sexual I've ever been in my whole life. That was a big surprise! But then there was concern that the placenta hadn't descended, so we weren't allowed to have intercourse until the 3rd trimester. :yikes:

I'm relieved to hear that libido does return. It's amazing how exhaustion really does zap it... Thankfully I have a wonderfully understanding and loving husband.

This is a great discussion about sex! Particularly for all of us prudes or ex-prudes out there!

Thanks for everyone's candor and good humor about it all.

i also thought that Welbutrin helped with libido- but in experience, patients don't seem to respond.

I am very fascinated by all that have said that pregnancy made them the more sexual. Was it all those hormones?

What about in third trimester as the uterus enlarges, how is sex comfortable? I would think ( since I've never been pregnant ) that there would be more of a fatigue/ uncoordination / positional issues. No?

psych-
1. as I had thought, depression surely disrupts those sex drives.

2. what about illegal drug use? ETOH, cocaine, marijuana ? Do these come in to play along with the depression(as in self medication) or more as a single component?

3. you did mention porn sites as a problem which did surprise me.

Do wives complain about the husband's use?

Or is it during couples counseling that that comes up.

I don't know if my husband porn surfs, but I trust his judgments and doubt that that would ever be a problem. I do not feel offended or belittled by that. Maybe I would if that replaced OUR sexual relationship. At one time I had given him a subscription to Playboy. I was not threatened by that. I thought he could have his fun whenever our times weren't connecting. But never did I fear that the porn would take over.

So are those "addicted" to porn more addictive personalities? Or already in a difficult / stressed marriage that creates the need for an outlet?

For me drive has been purely based on exhaustion status...when I was in undergrad and my husband in engineering he was stressed and busy and less interested :boggled: (sleep just seemed like such a better use of what little time I had at home), then after getting pregnant I wanted it all of the time ...I don't know, maybe it is all of those hormones. Course then you have the baby, are completely exhausted again and I wasn't sure if it was ever going to seem like a good idea again ...maybe it WAS the breastfeeding thing, I don't know. Luckily, it all evened out again (After I stopped breastfeeding now that I think about it...) and I think we're back in our groove .

Luckily we're both strong enough to say no when we're not interested and wise enough to respect each other's decisions. I think you also have to keep in mind that life isn't like the soap operas (well at least mine and my close friends aren't!) and that a good sex life takes work and respect and communication (and doesn't happen every 5 minutes).

Again, great topic Dr. Moo!
PS-Very tough during third trimester because of the huge belly, but very worth it!

Ok Ladies, here is that web site!! sorry it took so long but I finally got exams out of the way and have been playing Mom for a while! I hope that the site helps, I felt that it was greatly informative considering I started from ground zero on my search for the ever elusive big O. Check out some of the links off of the site too. It has been updated a bit since I used it but it did have some links to respectable looking "accessory" sites as well as books and what not. Good luck to you all and thanks again for all of the information on this great topic.

Emily

Oh, Psych, what % of your patients do you see for these sorts of issues? Do you feel that it is a fullfilling part of your practice to work with them compared to the other types of issues that you deal with?

oops, forgot the link, here it is


http://www.centerforfemalesexuality.com/Index.html

It's actually not a big part of my practice. It tends to come up situationally -- patients get better, ie less depressed or less anxious, develop a relationship, and then at some point sexual issues become issues that the patient asks about. Or there's a change due to illness or medications so patients bring this up. I always ask during initial evals and later when talking about side effects of meds, so sometimes people bring up issues at the beginning, but that's rare. It's much more common that it happens after someone has been in treatment for awhile, usually months. I find it very rewarding because most people with education and permission to do some exploring and a supportive partner do really well. The supportive partner is a big part of the happy ending, though.

Regarding porn effects on libido, so far it has always been a compliant of the wife who wishes her husband were more interested in having sex with HER. I suspect the etiology for men is multifactorial -- maybe some have a more "addictive" personality/brain, maybe some have marriage problems, maybe some have fetishes, maybe some have no way to verbalize their stressors and use fantasy and masturbation as stress relief, I'm sure there are lots of other possibilities. The stereotype is also that men are much more visual so that porn may be more directly stimulating for some men than a less ideal, but real, person.

OK I feel old- I mean I'm almost 40, but come on!

Has anyone heard of "sex-toy parties"?

First heard of it today! Apparantly like tupperware parties. Someone who has the goods gets a host & all who come to the party get to see how each toy is used, smell the stuff that smells, taste the stuff that tastes & then separately go to a room to order privately what they want. The host gets 10% of sales to buy her own stuff.

I mean this was like news to me! Where have I been?

They were talking about the"rabbit" - very popular item & the "expensive top of the line Hummer" for close to $200!

Anyway- just curious if anyone else had heard of this or had been to one of these parties?

I feel old & out of the loop :-(

Hey, I've actually been to one of these parties. It was very tastefully done, women only, and actually very fun! :yes:

Oh... and I am 37, so I don't think it is an "age" thing, you just may be out of the loop in general . Just kidding DrMoo

I haven't been to any parties like that (don't really care for the whole "sales party" thing in general, it's not my idea of a party and the take for the salesperson is generally crummy), but I've seen those things advertised and in stores. I did...er...test out a vibrating back massager one time, but all it did was make me numb. I guess I'm still an old-fashioned fingers gal :rotfl: training penis for getting used to sex again after I'd healed from delivering my daughter, but we just kinda skipped it.

Actually the one really useful-looking sex toy I've seen is that little barbell deal for doing Kegels with. Bet it'd help a lot of pregnant/incontinent women. Expensive, though.

amy

amyk.... I'm still laughing!!!

I've started a poll that was inspired by this discussion about how many se.xual partners you have had!!!! Seriously, there is a discussion that goes along with that. Please see the poll in this forum for more details.

ALSO NOTE: Please try to modify adult words or those related to se.xual content because our advertising service will ban us for adult content (the search picks up key words that are banned). This is important revenue for us. If you have used adult words, can you please edit your posts - THANKS

sethina
just curious:
what words would be considered banned? is there a list of words?

-body parts?

-s e x?

-inter......

-has there been much of the banned words in the posts??

no idea about the exact list, it;s more like a group of words together that may indicate that the site has adult content and therefore get removed. For example... se.x vib.ra.tor and so on. It really is ridiculous. We're adults discussing adult topics.

Anyhow.. we'll do our best, don't get too worried - just don't group things like .o.r.gy and so on. :rotfl:

Sethina

darn!

now that you bring that up... :scratchchin: ! oh well :censored:

Here is a link to drusgtore.com - you can buy personal products there that may be of interest!!

Here is their latest promo...
Spend $25 or more on Se.xual Well-being products and get a free Romantic Massage Kit ($14.99 value)! (Ends 12/26/03) Click here - Drugstore.com

I love Tupperware and Southern Living at Home and Creative Memories, but that was a new one for me. Sethina, you should host an online party and see if they'll give you the 10% proceeds in cash for MomMD!

You know that is a GREAT idea!! I'll look into it!

Sethina

I haven't been near the broadband for 4 weeks, and look at all that has happened.

I had terrible experiences with most of the antidepressants. Celexa almost completely turned me off, even with self-stimulation. Serzone is only a little better. Welbutrin does not have the same effects, but the other side effects were a problem. I was in a relationship at the time so I could test myself with both intercourse and autoerotism. Losing the depression was a good thing, but the side effects suck!

actually one of my classmates had one of these parties right after our block 2 tests with less than 10 people and the sales woman made $900 dollars on commission!!!!! that is ALOT of toys.

Some advice for those of you who are "not in the mood" to have sex, instead trying to focus on sex and liking sex and how to do sex, etc....Try to focus on your relationship with your spouse, rekindle a starry-eyed love between you two...Now i know no relationship is perfect, so work on other issues that might be frustating you (e.g. annoying habits, handling finaces, etc). Basically what I'm saying is try to improve your relationship with him overall, and the sexy mood stuff hopefully will follow. One more thing...if there is something that your husband does while you're intimate that you're not comfortable with, discuss this openly with him. If he isn't open to listening to your feelings, maybe you feel hurt or resentful inside and that's why you don't want to open up to him?

Ok, here it goes...I have wanted to ask a question about sex, but I have been too embarrased to ask.

I had a resident in a residential care facility that was having a.n.al se.x with another resident. She seemed to have problems related to it. Does an.al s.ex mess you up or not?

I'll explain a bit... I'm interested in Ob/gyn, among other specialties, and was always curious about this one, but asking anyone is a big no no. So with a little bit of anynimity, I got a little gumption!

unclear of "resident in residential facility"- is that a NH patient? a mental health patient? an assisted living situation?

and is this a consensual act?

It was a level 2 nursing center, basically right between a NH and assisted living. And technically it was consensual.

Hey, come on, guys. I know New Hampshire's got a lot of the toothless and crusty, but they're generally functional people, even during the primaries.

amy

and re the original question: If by "problems" you mean emotional or physical damage...it can mess you up if you're not careful (rough, unhygienic, getting toys stuck) or you don't want to be doing it. Just like with any other kind of sex. Not my cup of tea (and yiiii, esp. with postpartum hemorrhoids, sounds like bad sex all around), but plenty of people seem happy with it. Again, try the blowfish site for candid particulars: www.blowfish.com .