There are lots and lots of problems with any occupation. Instead of accepting things "as they are" and "sucking it up" because you decided to become a doctor...you should work to change the way things are done to improve everyones experience. So in the end, solution is not necessarily "suck it up."

At many teaching hospitals residents are abused, by both faculty/staff and nursing staff. Residents are overworked, female residents are harassed and made to feel guilty about having babies and breastfeeding, etc. Should we as women doctors say "well, this is what I signed up for...I guess I should just suck it up?" No, we fight to change an antiquated system. A system that's male oriented, and sexist.

In the same way. Young physicians and nurses need to learn more about one another...and appreciate what the other is going thru. With this understanding, things will get better for all involved...nurses, doctors, their families, patients, and their families.

I'm not disagreeing with your post...I just think the last line...should be used with caution. Afterall, that's what's said to young doctors as justification for abuse and disrespect.

If you read my whole post, I stated that there are some bad nurses out there, and some who cant seem to think logically. So of course there are times when docs get called at 4 am for no real reason. When I say " suck it up" I am referring to the docs who are just annoyed at being called PERIOD. Regardless if it's a legit call or not, some docs are just mean. I have had coworkers ask me " call you call Dr so-and-so, he is always mean when i call". There is NO REASON any nurse should ever be afraid to call any doctor for a legitimate reason , no matter what time. Believe it or not there are some docs out there who still have the "I'm God" attitude and treat nurses very badly.

I wasnt directing that statement at all doctors. You are SO RIGHT that we all need to be sensitive of each other's needs.

Here is an example:

An Obstetrician was talking about sleep deprivation at the nurses station last week and all the night shift girls ( myself included) were of course weighing in on it since we all get no sleep either. So I said to him " well at least you guys can sleep in the call room, we arent allowed to close our eyes at all!" I meant NO HARM to the doctor at all. I was stating a fact. They get to sleep a few hours, we dont. SO he proceeded to go into how " yeah then after being on call all night I get to go to the office and SAVE LIVES". Ok what kind of office do you work in that you are saving lives? I pointed out to him that #1 I wasnt attacking him so please dont attack me, and #2 you DO get to sleep several hours even with a laboring patient on the floor b/c we call you when we need you and let you sleep the rest of the night. Another nurse pointed out to him " these girls get to go hom after being up for 24 hrs straight and then take of their kids all day". He again said " yeah and IM SAVING LIVES". Ok buddy. Whatever. THAT is the attitude I am talking about... I'm the doc, youre just a pion. No one was attacking him, yet he HAD to make the nurse look insignificant compared to his LIFESAVING doctor status. I ended up saying to him... listen, we ALL have to be up at night and it sucks any way you look at it, and we are ALL losing sleep. He again mumbled something under his breath and walked away. If he would be sensitive to OUR issues , we could easily understand HIS issues.... but he just doesnt care about what the nurses go through!

I've just skimmed through this discussion, but the idea of respect jumps to mind as I read of others' experiences.

I, too, got a lot of attitude and grief from many nurses in residency and med school. (Interestingly enough, as a female, I was often treated much more poorly by the nurses than my husband who was a year ahead of me... And I am a NICE person who never treated any nurse rudely at any time.) On the other hand, I also had invaluable experiences with many nurses (especially in my OB rotations). I really learned a lot from many nurses, once they saw I was just there to work and learn and not be a jerk to them.

We just need more respect in the world in general, and definitely in medicine. Whether you are Christian or not, the "treat others as you wish to be treated" applies everywhere! I really think those individuals who treat others like dirt are acting out of their own unresolved issues...they are unhappy in life, issues at home, unresolved problems, frustrated, etc. We've all seen the attending who tears into the student or resident and seems to live for belittling others. I feel sorry for those individuals and wonder what in their experiences has made them so bitter/unhappy/miserable to treat others this way.

My mother used to tell me as a little girl, "It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice." It sounded a little cheesey at the time, but I've lived by it and it's worked for me.

PS: I think we need to remember that medicine is a TEAM project. I could probably work without my nurse, but it would be a miserably difficult experience and I'd accomplish little. Likewise, she would only get so far in her day if I wasn't there to see the patient! I make a point to NEVER say that my nurse works FOR me; she works WITH me as a partner on a level playing field. And we are both working for the patient's best interests and well-being.

mom1st-
I think that you hit on a good point. Your attitude about us being a team is an excellent one to have, unfortunately not had by too many people on both sides of this issue. When I worked as a nurse I always used to say: Hospitals exist because patients sometimes have MEDICAL conditions that require NURSING care. That is the entire premise of hospitals, neither part functions without the other, you hit the nail on the head.
-Plum
PS-I can't stand nurses or docs or RTs or PTs or whoever that think what they do is more important or deserving of more respect than anyone else. I am a firm believer that all of our works have interent worth, no matter what it is.

Being an intern and a nurse during her shifts is WAAAAAY different. Sure nurses arent getting sleep on the night shift but many of them most of the time get a decent amount of sleep before coming in and have more days off. So I dont know that I would have argued the loss of sleep issue: RN loss of sleep va Intern loss of sleep. At least the nurse on nights has the option of changing her shift. Interns dont have a choice.

One thing I dont agree with is the "IM SAVING LIVES", uuuuhhh, dont nurses do the same? I cant tell you how many times I started running the codes at my hospital (nonteaching) b/c the ER docs couldnt make it up to the code right away (Im ACLS certified). And one doesnt have to actively participate in a code to be saving lives. How about the many times nurses have identified a patient going into ARDS, or Heart block, or SVT? Without noting such by the nurse many of these patient would have died but no!! The nurse observed and identified and alerted the doctor! The doctors cant be at all the patients bedside 24/7 so largely the nurse definately is the eyes and ears of the doctors.

And my goodness YES. There are doctors who will be irritable no matter the call. I had a 28 year old not long ago who had a hx of diabetes, hypothyroidism, and was morbidly obese. She was admitted with chest pain and bradycardia. The cardiologist who admitted her was not on call after he admitted her. Her heart rate on admission was in the high 40's. Now I am quite aware that when one sleeps, usually the HR lowers. This patient's droped to 30. I awakened her to take her blood pressure and to check on her. She said she was a little SOB. I called the on call cardiologist and he basically thought I shouldnt have called. He wasnt extremely rude. He went on about how patients can go into heart block while sleeping, I was like "You as a cardiologist may know this, but I am a RN and I dont have the knowledge base to call the shots." He said okay "Dont call unless her heart rate drops to 20 for greater than 3 minutes."
I didnt feel comfortable with that, buy what do I know, Im no cardiologist!! It is not like this patient was an athlete and just has an overall healthy heart that can beat little and perfuse well. I thought maybe it was due to her hypothyroidism, but there were no labs ordered to check on that. Anytime I feel the patient is threatened Im going to call!

I have to disagree with nurses getting sleep before they come to work. Most of us on nights are there b/c we have small children at home... so we get NO sleep during the day b/c we are up with the kids early in the morning, then go to work all night. Many of the girls I work with then go home and stay up ANOTHER 12 hrs until they can finally go to bed when their husband gets home... so its something like 36 hrs without sleep. And we cant always change our shift.... like I said, many have small children so that is why we work nights to begin with.

I agree with everything else you said... and since youre a nurse you can see both sides of the coin!

I do see your point about nurses with little ones. But usually daycare is an option to get sleep. Losing sleep verses finding a sitter to get some sleep is often times a personal choice. No choices for interns/residents--and to many of them, 3 12 hours and 4 days off sounds awfully sweet. My friend does nights, her husband drops them off at daycare in the morning, she sleeps then picks them up.

Yes I do have my kids in preschool so *I* can sleep AFTER I have worked an dbeen up for 24 hrs straight.I dont get any sleep before I go into work though. But a lot of people cant afford daycare costs even if they are working.Despite what people think nurses do not make that much money. I paid over $800 a month to have my kids in preschool PART TIME. A lot of people cant afford that. I am lucky my husband makes more money than i do, but a lot of nurses arent in that boat.

It sucks for ANYONE having to stay up all night, and we all knew what we were getting into when we went into this profession.

No doubt that it does suck for everyone who has to stay up for hours but just because a person chooses this profession or that doesn't take a way a person's right to complain/vent. I would never think to say "suck it up" to an intern, doctor or fellow nurse no matter the differences in pay-that's irrelevant.

Again, I do see your point. I still dont think one can compare a nurse not getting sleep working 3 12's, 4 days off and an intern working most days of the week and taking call q 2 or 3 days staying up all night for the most part, and regular hours being 12 hours + in between call plus having kids at home. Now, this doesnt means nurses dont have the right to complain about how much sleep they lack due to childcare issues. Dont we all need a little empathy?

In all honesty, I havent met a nurse yet that could not afford daycare. But I bet there are some who are in certain situations who for some reason cannot.

Yeah, nurses dont make as much as FPs (at least where I am at) but the pay isnt shabby comparable to other fields. Per diem makes 55-60K full-time, where regulars probably would make 38-43K--that is assuming no weekend packages.