I know this is a common heated issue of debate, but I was curious to know how you all feel about people being put to death for their crimes being as doctors, or potentials doctors are taught to save lives.
I work in healthcare currently, and I think for the most part I oppose it. Sure it costs money to house these people and feed them, but so does killing them and burying them, and providing social security for the children left behind and in addition to (in some cases) their already support from the government such as welfare/medicaid. So Im not convinced the money issue is a valid argument.
Sure if some person brutally raped and murdered my daughter, I would probably take his life with my own hands. Yep. Probably would and feel justifiably so about it. But I would be acting irrationally, or maybe even *rational* for the situation, but not necessarily right.
What is your point of views?

I disagree with capital punishment. Murder is murder, capital punishment is no different. I don't know how anyone can "flip the switch" so to speak. The desire to get revenge is natural, but what does it accomplish in the end? It certainly wouldn't bring your loved ones back to life, or change what happened to them. I think especially as medical professionals (or medical professionals to be) who are trained to save lives no matter who the patient is (hippocrates oath) it goes against the ideals and morals that we possess. For a medical professional to assist in capital punishment is even more astounding to me.

Just my :twocents: !

M-A

Just wanted to add my :twocents:

Capital Punishment is a moral and a criminal issue, not a medical one. You cannot imply that a good and caring doctor (due to the hippocratic oath) cannot support capital punishment.

I am a kind and caring person. I love the patients that I have worked with, and I intend to be a wonderful doctor. BUT I do believe in capital punishment. This does not make me a less compassionate person!

If you were one to believe in God, and then really sat down and thought about what He/She would want...I am guessing God would NOT say it is OK for me to make the judgment that someone should DIE at my discretion ( unnatrually)...

Yes, I definately wouldnt want to be the judge of that.
I just feel that we as the *people* dont have the right to kill another for any reason...and the government/judiciary shouldnt have that right either you know, kinda above the law that is imposed on everyone else.

Another point I would like to make is how the law is in a lot of ways based upon the bible. Here's some examples: Can only be married to one person, in some states sadamy is illegal, etc. How can a nation talk about God in their documents, and base so many things in biblical terms and decide it is OK to put someone to death? To me, this is contradictory logic. Just some food for thought.

I think this can be justified Biblically by the 'eye for an eye' scriptures.
Also the Bible says that he/she who lives by the sword should die by the sword.

I don't know how I feel about CP these days. My view has changed over the years from extreme tolerance and patience of/for all people, to feeling extremely fed up with senseless violence, pain and suffering of innocent people, AND I fear for the quality of life for my step (and future) children. At this stage in my life, I feel hurt and exhausted by hearing of painful stories of violence which seem to grow worse every year, not better. My first desire would be to see every person on death row rehabilitated. My second inclination would be to allow "he/she who lived by the sword die by the sword.'

I'm not saying this is "right,' I'm just expressing how I feel.

Conversely, I also believe that an 'eye for an eye' leaves everybody blind (including myself), so mercy and grace is needed for every human being. But where should we draw the line? Human life may be a good place. But again, I really don't know.
I'm grateful not to be in the shoes of a judge, jury or a governor. I couldn't carry the burden on my shoulders of the responsibility of making this great life/death decision.

Shauna

I was referring more to the 10 commandments, "Thou shall not kill" in particular. I do see your point about an eye for an eye, however.
I feel that the government contradicts itself time after time. Public schools are no longer allowed to pray because of others not wanting to be coersed into prayer, if they dont believe in such.....but yet again, many laws are based by christianity--the belief in God. It is like the people/public systems cant express their beliefs because they will be miscontrued by the nonbelievers----and America is so diverse, but at the same time, we must all, abide by laws of christianity--believing in God or not. Is this not coersion if the prayer thing is? I guess that is another topic though!
I guess the big picture is, is that I dont have faith in the government's decisions, and that they are justifiable or even right based on their contradiction, which further validates to me, how they should not have the divine right to take someone's life. I dont know the solution, but one thing I do know...after someone is murdered----nothing can make it right. I guess we cant please everybody----and nothing is 100% at deterring others from their heneous crimes even after makeing examples out of the others.

By the way...I private mailed you!

Yes, I understand the seemingly contradiction. I have often felt that way too. However I've read in the Bible how God commanded seemingly incorrigible corrupt people to be killed at times. But still, this was a divinely made judgment, and not given for mankind alone to make. So I can see the point of view that mankind is not in the position to make this kind of decision, and I have always agreed that we shouldn't. Today, I don't know what to think...

I dont know the solution, but one thing I do know...after someone is murdered----nothing can make it right. [/QUOTE]


Yes this is true, and if I were in the position to judge, I'm sure I would never order the death penalty for ANYONE because I would fear that I was 'playing God.' I guess this makes me a hypocrite because I sometimes feel so fed up with hearing about heinous crimes that a part of me wants to see evil done away with so bad that I don't react negatively when I hear of a malicious murderer being sentenced to death by some other authority. For instance, when I heard that the 'DC sniper' was sentenced to death, before I had a chance to digest the info, I was shocked to hear cheering come out of my mouth! This is embarrassing to admit because I am a Christian, and it doesn't seem 'right' to have reacted that way over such news. But I felt such grief for the victims and their families throughout the very LONG stretch of time that they were terrorized, and I felt so angry over the complete disregard for human life these guys seemed to have, and the lack of remorse they seemed to display (I could go on). Together, all these factors made me rejoice when 'justice' was finally served. I actually NEVER thought that I supported the DP until that very moment when I spontaneously rejoiced.

I'm grateful for this post. It's making me think about what side of the fence I truly stand on with regards to the DP. However, in this moment I must admit, I'm still really not sure.

Shauna
Hi Dana! :wave: I PM'd you back!

I can truly say, that I feel in a lot of cases, such as the DC sniper, they deserved it. Like, "Ha, Ha." I can admitt to that, but I am human and I have those natural feelings of vengence of a sort, and for this very reason I mostly feel that a human such not order to take someone elses life. I could never be a judge!

hmmm...yes, this is a difficult call. As discussed, on the one hand, all those :censored: should die, like the people they've hurt or killed. On the other hand, who should decide the fate of a particular individual? Not another human being, I don't think.

Overall, I think I oppose the death penalty.

(not very profound, but I'm kinda wishy washy about the topic)

Hello all.

I used to be a strong supporter of the death penalty until my first basic ethics class. The prof. was a genius and he basically specialized in the death penalty (all of his published papers were about it). He made me sooo mad the first class, and I made a vow not to side with him on anything, basically keep a closed mind. I did not drop the class, however, and he backed me into a corner with all of my arguments, except for my emotional ones. He truly showed me that the death penalty is about emotion and not logic argument.

I agree that if anyone hurt my daughter, I would want to do something about it -- right or wrong -- however, if I couldn't or didn't, then I would not want 12 unaffected people to make that decision, as it is not there's to make.

My house has been broken into twice in ten years. One of those times, I was home and held at gunpoint. The robber left and I escaped the ordeal unharmed physically. I couldn't sleep in a bed for more than three years. I wanted to sleep on the couch by the door, so I could hear if someone broke in. The guy was never caught although we told police who it was. I would have loved to have harmed him, but what would have come of it? This did not change my view back. I still think that the death penalty is something that belongs to the third world. Wait! It is in the third world only, except for us!

Also, I agree that society and violence today are at all time highs, but reinstatement of the death penalty and growing violence should show that it obviously isn't working. With the judicial system in the state that it is currently in, there is no way that we should have the d.p. At least not if you are not white and rich, these almost guarantee that you'll be spared.

Brandi

Well here is my view, for what it is worth.

In one way I DO believe in the death penalty. I have *no* feeling for people who murder children and the elderly at all. I would *not* have a problem "flipping the switch" for someone who murdered a child. I have no sympothy for those who murder.

BUT....

With how our justice system works and the amount of blacks, poor, and innocent people on death row I can't support the death penalty. If the death penalty is to work (and it does not in this country) it has to be fair and it is not.

Marilyn

I also wanted to point out another reason that capital punishment doesn't work for our society: people are wrongfully convicted all the time, and therefore would be put to death by mistake!

That is very true but I hope with DNA now that will be less common.

Marilyn

A question for those of you who are for capital punishment: would it change your mind if someone you loved were sentenced to death?

M-A

I think that I will pose the opposite question. For those of you who are against it, would it change your mind if someone murdered your child?

M-A-- to answer your question, no, I don't think it would change my mind if someone I knew were sentenced to death (I'm assuming for the sake of this argument that they are guilty of the crime comitted).

In my mind, if someone does something horrible enough to invoke the death penalty, then I no longer want to have them as my freind. If it were my family member, or even a good friend, of course I would not want that person to die, but I still think that the death penalty is justifiable in extreme cases such as serial murder or rape-murders of children. If someone I knew did something that awful, then they have no support from me, regardless of my previous relationship with them.

Drey,
To answer your question: No I would not want the death penalty. That would take away my privilege of killing that person myself! I know, that sounds awful. I dont think I would ever be satisfied. But I would be acting irrationally, which is not necessarily *right*. No allowable penalty under the law would satisfy my humanistic hunger to avenge my dtr's murder.

Drey

To answer your question, no I would not want the death penalty if someone killed my loved one. I would probably want to kill them myself! But of course, I wouldn't and the fact that the killer would be put to death would not make me feel better about losing a loved one. I don't think anything would make me feel better about that.

M-A

Drey,

In response to your question, I think that PremedRN says it all! If someone were to as little as molest my daughter - which is only punishable in our society with house arrest, comm. service, maybe a small jail sent. (small potatoes) - I would want to kill that person myself. Instant reaction, pure animal instinct, if I retained any logic, I allow the person to go through the system.
In d.p. cases, no; theoretically, if I could not kill them first, no one else has the right or duty to take away that life. I would fight to keep that person alive in a small hole forever, with little to no peer social interaction. Who knows what I, or you, in that case, may react in the real situation? How much for cruel could you be to a social creature than that? Killing them won't bring my loved one back, won't make me feel any better, make anyone feel any better, won't deter other criminals, yada, yada, yada.
The last time that I looked into the death penalty - about 5 years ago, in the case of electric chairs, there are two people with two switches so that the one with the juice would not know who actually killed the man. If it's such a good thing, why wouldn't you want to know that you were too a killer? And in the case of money, it also takes far more to kill an inmate than to allow them lwop. The old figures didn't even take into account the families left behind; it was based solely on price of litigation, prison costs such as housing inmates and costs of implementing the d.p.
It always struck me as being odd that often the strongest proponents for the death penalty are devout religious Christians; yet, this would go against the usual teachings of the New Testament. The strongest statements for it in the Bible came from the Old Test. when people still gave sacrifice.
Anyone?

Brandi

Yep, why is it wrong that a grieving mother could not kill her dtr's predator, but it is okay for someone else, designated by law? If it is not my privilege, then whose privilege is it? NO ONES.

PremedRN,
Because Capital Punishment is not about revenge, it is about justice.

Diana,
What you say may be right in theory. I just have a hard time believing that humans can separate those innate feelings of revenge and just merely justice, therefore, I dont feel others should make that call, allbeit more rationally than if I were the mother of such a victim and took that predator's life with my own hands. So for me, Im not convinced of its justibility as its basis. We are human.

I would like to throw out a few more ideas and then try and put this to bed.
First, you say that the d.p. is not about revenge, it's about justice. I am assuming here that you are talking about punishment, because justice sounds like a euphemism for revenge - "eye for an eye" logic. If it's punishment, first let's look at what punishment's goals are:
1. Reconciliation
2. Rehabilitation
3. Retribution
4. Deterrence

We can obviously say that 1 and 2 are out because it's hard for a dead man to ever try to make things right for the victim's family or for him/herself again.
Retribution - well, yes, back to the revenge, it may do that for some.
Deterrence - while the jury's still out on this and it's always debated, it is pretty clear from any statistics of violence here in the states (any of them) and any other developed country in the world that our judicial system is not working to deter crime.

Using those goals, it's got to be revenge that we're looking for; otherwise, what is it?

If it weren't driven by pure emotion, then why would people not involved, criminal nor victims, be so passionate about keeping it? When we try to detach ourselves from emotions, it's amazing the new perspective in which we are allowed to see the world.

Brandi