The beauty of being an adult and true scientist is in being able to admit when you are wrong. When I was an AIDS counselor in the early 1990's THAT is the story we were told.

However, that in NO WAY excuses your insinuation that Africans are responsible for spreading Ebola and AIDS. The fact is that because AIDS was originally seen in great numbers in Gay, white men in the US it's logical that a Gay man did in fact get infected in Africa, come to America and spread it among many, many other gay men. Patinet Zero, the man who is according to urban myth is believed to be responsible for "bringing" AIDS to North America, may not have been the first person in North America with AIDS. But with at least 248 DOCUMENTED partners, he certainly seems likely to played a LARGE role in the spread of the disease in the gay, white community in the early 1980's.

Bottom line, Africans can NOT be made to blame for the spread/presence of AIDS in the US. So in the end I'd rather be "ignorant of the true facts", than wrong, unapologetic, borderline racist AND IGNORANT.

Path just as making the statement that black spread X or y *is* wrong, the statements made previously that X or Y people spread syphilis/smallpox/whatever is *also* wrong. If one statement raises hackles how come the other does not? this is something that really bothers me. As long as we are bashing one race it's okay, but as soon as someone makes a comment about another race that is NOT okay, why this double standard?

I guess that some of you guys have issues with how some countries came about...like how this country was taken over by whomever and now it is called USA, well....shoot that is how many countries were founded...yup it was wrong for folks to come here and massacre NA but that was a long time ago and we would NOT be here if not for that event. No matter what you all thing, about America being racist...I guess you guys have NOT traveled much. Every country I have lived in (Spain, Germany) and visited (Canada, South Africa, Finland) ARE way more prejudist than we are. You really have to live in another country to truly experience this. The racism I have seen in Spain towards the gypsies (gitanos), Africans and other ethnic groups is much more overt and apalling that anything I have ever seen here. There are also options for some folks that hate it here so much....like living somewhere else. I guarantee you that this will open many an eyeball..

I really appreciate the previous post. This thread has gotten increasingly rude and very offensive to me. I really wanted to read a discussion on people's ideas to solve a big problem in the US with our illegal immigrant population and how that affects our field of medicine.
Making generalized statements is called stereotyping-whether the group you are generalizing is white, black, or purple. Being of any specific race doesn't allow you rights to generalize anyone. And having friends or not having friends of every race and creed doesn't excuse these generalizations. There have been terrible things that have happened in our country's history and there have been terrible things done to people in this country but we are not the only country that has a dark history--the US is in the majority in that respect. We should look ahead with knowledge of the past to make our country a better place.
And while I respect the historical knowledge that has been presented there have been some really unnecessary back and forth comments that I don't like to see from intelligent women. Let's get back to the topic at hand and if there are members who want to continue a discussion on race in America they can start a new thread with a clearer topic so I can choose not to read it.

Here, here! mrssd, efex, great posts!!

So if we're both wrong why didn't you address AnnaM as well?

There IS no double standard here as far as I'm concerned and since I'm a little bit of every race on the planet except Asian, it's all good to me. But don't expect me as an African American woman to sit idly by while other people tell me how much THEY have done for black folks. THIS is where the "who shot John crap" started in this thread, so lets not disillusion ourselves. In the process of reminding folks of the history of the world a few facts came out. That Europeans raped and killed Native American is a historial fact and as a decendant of people from Ireland (McDougal sp?) as well as a bunch of other places, I feel quite free to call history as I see it. If certain people can't handle the truth, then that's their problem.

So why is it that people always expect black folks to turn the other cheek whenever something offensive is stated? The "rudeness" in this thread began as ignorance like always does.

And why is it that after a "controversial" thread like this one I can ALWAYS count on my rating to go dwon a few notches?? Talk about immature! So should I now look up every one who disagreed/insulted me in this thread and return the favor? I wish I had the time but it's nice to know that I was thoguh of in that moment!! :rolleyes:

I honestly didn't think that she was blaming Africans. I took it as an allusion to the general spread of diseases that is really perpetual in our world. Like I wouldn't hate Asians and Eastern Europeans for being the (suspected) source of the black death to my Northwestern European ancestors. I certainly do not hate them by any means, but you have to acknowledge the fact that white people aren't the sole source of disease and death in this world.

And why do you insist that everyone besides yourself is racist and ignorant?

Good post, efex, I totally agree with you. It is interesting about other countries and racism. I haven't heard a lot about the racism in Europe. Thanks for the input!

I don't think that anyone was expecting "black folks to turn the other cheek whenever something offensive is stated". But why should the rest of us sit by and turn the cheek whenever our ancestors are also taken a shot at? Equality, right? And I haven't ever rated anyone (didn't know that was an option), so I think that it is immature on your part to just go give bad ratings to people who disagree with you. Isn't this a debate?

I WASN'T insinuating that Africans are responsible for spreading Ebola and AIDS. I was trying to make the point that diseases originate all over the world and eventually spread all over the world, and trying to blame one race or group of people for spreading a disease is just pointless, especially if you're talking about syphilis, which most likely spread FROM the New World TO Europe, not vice versa. People travel and diseases spread. I really don't think anyone travels with the express purpose of spreading a disease that they know they carry, and diseases spread just as readily from consensual sex as from rape.

Many people have disagreed with you, path, but I really haven't seen any insults. The thread started out with people giving their considered opinions on the subject and you immediately took offense and started calling people racists. You take offense very easily. You have called me ignorant (and I apologize for returning the compliment in a fit of anger) and a racist, and I am neither. You have also assumed I was a Republican and I am not.

I enjoy debate, but name-calling is something I need to just back off from, so I am exiting this thread. It's been interesting.

One more thing: For an extremely interesting take on the effects of illegal immigration on the medical field, which is, after all, how this thread started, you MUST read the editorial article on page A16 of yesterday's (May 11) Wall Street Journal (and before you make a comment about my choice of reading material, path, you should know that it's a free 6-month subscription that my husband signed me up for. I am not alife-long reader.)

The article is called TB or Not To Be, by Dr. Katrina Firlik, a neurosurgeon, and makes some very interesting points. Be sure to read all the way to the end. It takes an interesting turn in the last paragraph.