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#66963 - 03/10/08 01:14 PM Re: Pros and Cons of becoming a DO
docE Offline
Elite Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 176
I believe it is OK, not OH. My understanding at this point is that if you want to PRACTICE in one of those five states you must do the rotating internship. However, if your school is located in one of those states, but you have no intention in practicing in that state, you do not have to do it. It sucks, I agree.

Pathdr2b, clearly I must have offended you when I said "do your research" regarding the cost of schools. What I meant was, no one pays the mean cost when they enroll, they pay that particular school's tuition, so if cost is a factor, perspective students should do their research regarding the price of various schools. That's all. Hope that was more clear this time.

Also, I'm just curious what you mean by "real prejudice" against DO's. Although I don't deny that it does exist, I think the extent is often overblown. I'm just wondering what your experience has been, since you are not a DO, that has lead you to this conclusion.

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#66964 - 03/10/08 01:21 PM Re: Pros and Cons of becoming a DO
docE Offline
Elite Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 176
DO's do not HAVE to take both the USMLE and COMLEX. They must take COMLEX, and may elect to take USMLE if they wish. Many allopathic residencies will consider osteopathic applicants with only COMLEX scores, however, I'm sure there are some that absolutely require USMLE. While I'm sure it's annoying to sit for two exams and fork out the extra $600-$1000, both tests test the same material, so it's not like you're studying for different tests really. They're more or less the same with some slight variances in weighting

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#66965 - 03/10/08 02:56 PM Re: Pros and Cons of becoming a DO
Doc201X Offline
Super Elite Member

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 2637
Loc: Hot a$$ Texas
Quote:
Originally posted by docE:
Also, I'm just curious what you mean by "real prejudice" against DO's. Although I don't deny that it does exist, I think the extent is often overblown. I'm just wondering what your experience has been, since you are not a DO, that has lead you to this conclusion.
Not to personally disparage DO's, I've heard MD's refer to DO's as quacks, too dumb to get into (allopathic) med school, ect ect. I think you get the picture. I'd call this prejudice. Perhaps others feel differently.

And of course you're correct DO's don't have to take both the COMPLEX and USMLE's but there's a Mommd member who, once I read her story, pretty throughly convinced me that if I did go DO, I would be doing myself a big favor by taking both exams.

DocE, where are you located because it's my understanding that DO's are accepted in some locations better than others
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Future MudPhud
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#66966 - 03/10/08 04:23 PM Re: Pros and Cons of becoming a DO
docE Offline
Elite Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 176
People are discriminated against all the time. Race, Sex, Age, Sexual-orientation, Religion, Voting Party, Disability, Weight, etc, the list goes on forever. There's always going to be narrow minded people who think that they're better than you, for whatever reason. That doesn't mean they're right, that doesn't mean you should try to change who you are to accomodate them. I have no doubt that you heard these comments, but I don't think that is representative of (in general) the allopathic community's view of DO's. Sure, there are MD's who don't like DO's. There are also white people who don't like black people, straight people who don't like homosexuals, skinny people who don't like fat people. Times seem to be changing (slowly) and our mind set seems to be more progressive with each generation. Most of those MD's who don't like DO's tend to be old white men (big surprise). As they retire, I think the medical community will become more accepting. There are far more MD's than there are DO's and part of the ignorance is simply due to lack of exposure. Most peolpe I've met who are unfamiliar with DO's are a bit skeptical at first, seem to quickly realize that both MD's and DO's are trained physicians. In fact, many people I know who have seen DOs in the past actually seek them out and prefer them to MD's. For those who are skeptical about DO's, I would encourage you to find one, make an apopintment, and judge for yourself.

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#66967 - 03/10/08 04:50 PM Re: Pros and Cons of becoming a DO
asunshine Offline
Super Elite Member

Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 1896
FWIW, I wouldn't mind going to a DO school at all if there was one nearer to my hometown and the cost was similar. I like the philosophy and the training in OMM. If I was gung-ho derm or plastics or something, I probably would have done MD.

I'm from the midwest and I haven't heard a single person say one bad thing about DO's since I started working in healthcare 5 years ago. Probably half the ones I know of are in specialties, too.

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#66968 - 03/10/08 06:37 PM Re: Pros and Cons of becoming a DO
Doc201X Offline
Super Elite Member

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 2637
Loc: Hot a$$ Texas
Playing devils advocate here, there's a ton of discrimination to go around, but for most people in general, you can't change your sex, weight, sexual orientation, or race. Going DO is a choice one that in these dyas and times, could cost 300K. I believe people need to seriously think about being willing to take on that kind of debt for the "opportunity" to be discriminated against.
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http://path201x.blogspot.com/

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#66969 - 03/16/08 07:56 PM Re: Pros and Cons of becoming a DO
Coily Embrace MD Offline
Super Elite Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 581
Loc: California
I agree with path on this one. People (especially in medicine) are looking for ways to distinguish themselves. If you're a DO, already that's one strike against you. If possible, you want to go to a competitive school, residency, and have equally superlative credentials as the rest. As politically incorrect as it may be...in many places, MD trumps DO. In Southern California...at my medical school/residency/places of employment...there is absolutely a (covert) thought that DOs just wanted to be doctors but couldn't get into an American Medical school. It's like one step above foreign medical grad...

...that's what's real. Not how it should be...but how it is.

As mentioned, there is no real difference between the two (except for this discrimination), so why not just do the MD?
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#66970 - 03/18/08 09:50 PM Re: Pros and Cons of becoming a DO
alkatz Offline
Elite Member

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 279
Well, the chance to really learn OMM is one!
It certainly has its benefits and is very useful.

I think the medical world needs to know that medicine is not about elitism, and those who lack the resources to be "good" enough for MD school make great doctors too, and just because a person didn't make it into an MD school, they, too, are great docs.

Personally, half of the people I talk to about DO's have really positive things to say..."They really know their stuff! DO's are great"

I could care less about elitism and prestige, I just want to be a great doc to my patients.
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The test of courage comes when we are in the minority. The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority. - Ralph W. Sockman

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#66971 - 03/18/08 11:08 PM Re: Pros and Cons of becoming a DO
Marite Offline
Member

Registered: 09/21/07
Posts: 40
It's nice to hear that you're not in it for your ego. You bring up a good point about elitism. I think many - certainly not all, or even most -physicians (I know mostly MDs) really need to get over themselves. Speaking from my experience in allopathic (MD) training and practice, elitism is sort of ingrained into you; when you get to med school and throughout you are told that you are among the best and brightest and most (ok, some) people treat you as something special and extraordinary. It's easy to buy into all that b.s! B/c we work so hard, long hours, call etc. we start to see ourselves as different, more dedicated, even "better" than the average Joe, which is of course ridiculous. The elitist vibe reaches particularly nauseating levels at high-powered allopathic institutions. I know b/c I trained at one of them. Where I did my fellowships being "just" an MD meant low status in a land where MD/PhDs ruled. I'm leaving clinical medicine and I look forward to being just a "normal" working person! When my new job emailed me a written offer they didn't put M.D. after my name. Right away I got a call from the company apologizing for their oversight. I told them not only did I not even notice, I wasn't bothered! I certainly don't want to get rid of the M.D. after my name but it was actually refreshing to see my name without it! It sounds like you are in medicine for the right reason.

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#66972 - 03/20/08 03:10 PM Re: Pros and Cons of becoming a DO
Coily Embrace MD Offline
Super Elite Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 581
Loc: California
While I agree it's 'wrong'...it is the way it is (until it's changed, I guess). And getting upset with me for simply stating the obvious isn't going change that. And while the argument that "I don't care about credentials, I just wanna help people" is valid...it's the credentials that will allow you to have choices about where/how/when you 'help people.' They matter.

If you're a DO, you may find that you're unable to match in some specialties...in popular programs. You may not get to practice the type of medicine, in the location you'd like to, if your credentials aren't (what is considered to be) up to par. The fact that there's so much discussion on this issue exemplifies the fact that there is discrimination...and DOs *are* considered by many to be inferior. Given the choice...why fight your way out of a hole from step 1?...

...unless you *wanna* fight the fight on principle (or otherwise). But realize that you're going to be fighting (these stereotypes) with patients, colleagues, and staff (nursing, techs etc), and proceed accordingly.

Just go in with your eyes open, so you can make a decision based on the reality...and not on 'what should be.'

Should people be discriminated against for anything?...no. But are they? Absolutely. And many people (who will matter to your career) will make the distinction...and that will limit your choices.

Just know that...and proceed with this understanding.
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