So is anyone out there going full time academic? Are you surviving?

I am the only female in my division and the first female in our division . There are very few women even in the dept. of medicine, and the most prominent do not have kids. I am struggling a bit to compete with these guys who go home to a cooked meal, play with their kids for half an hour, and then go back to working on their research projects. My mentor is getting frustrated with me as I'm not getting a lot moving research wise as I have 10% administrative and that is sucked up by my patients. All of the women I interact with socially that are not md's are scandalized that I work!!! ) But I have been recently been counseled women md's in my division that my best option is to go part-time. Really? I almost feel like everyone in my life, these stay-at home moms, and the other mommd's are telling me I have to go part-time. But even my best friend from med school, who was ultra-gunner, now retina specialist, is part-time.

Not sure what the right answer is, but all I really must be is a good mom, a good doctor, and if I can, get my academic career off the ground. It kind of disgusts me that I am getting beat by these guys who arent smarter than me but read and work a lot harder due to lack of other issues that I have to attend to (such as oh s(*&--the nanny is sick, how many of my back up sitters can i call before i find someone etc). An then, how much of my lack of academic success am I blaming on being a Mom when maybe I am just not getting the job done.

sah - I am not sure I have any solutions for you, but I wanted to tell you I know how you feel! I am just barely on the edge of an academic setting so I don't have the same competition issues you face, but I can relate to having a support network that consists of more stay at home moms than working ones, and also to the frustration of having colleagues who have a person at home to run the show - while you are doing both!

Sometimes I ask myself "what happened here"? I grew up in the seventies and eighties when it was all "girl power" and it's ok for boys to like baking and girls to like trucks (Free To Be You And Me - anyone?). And back then, there was never any question that I would go to college and probably beyond, in order to have some lofty life goals - it was pretty much expected. And now, most of my family members stay home with their kids, as do many of my friends, everyone took their spouse's name, and most medical practices and hospitals still run as if the doctor has no other responsibilities other than the job (meetings at 7am and 5:30pm - anyone?).

Women make excellent physicians, our profession should be bending over backwards to make it possible to have a family and work, and yet more often than not, it feels like an uphill battle, with very few people around who understand.

And don't even get me started about student loans......(sigh)

I've spent good portion of my research career in academia and even though I don't know you, I'm certain you're not making any excuses here. IMHO, academia isn't "set up" to have Moms succeed and the only women I've seen do well in this environment, either have no children or just one child.

The issue I've seen with going "part-time" early in an academic career (which is a just talk because you likely still end up working a lot), is that your colleagues may resent you for it. And that will make getting tenure pretty difficult, assuming that's your goal.

Geez, I hate that I sound so gloom and doom about this but unfortunately this is what it's looked like to me since 1988 when I first started my research career. OTOH, if you can find a woman at your institution like you who's also willing to mentor you and help you avoid the land mines, that could go a LONG way career wise.

As an aside, I also really like "academia" but decided a long time ago that I'll have to get my clinical and research "on" at a place like the NIH, where doing it all, Mom, Clinician, Researcher, seems MUCH easier and where there are NUMEROUS role models there who succeed at it everyday.

Good luck!

"It kind of disgusts me that I am getting beat by these guys who arent smarter than me but read and work a lot harder due to lack of other issues that I have to attend to"

EXACTLY! I am not in academic medicine (thank goodness, although I really should be an academic) but I could have written that statement myself. I have been struggling with this myself for the past several years. On the one hand, I am very happy with the time and energy I have for my family. I get to be the Cub Scout Den Leader for both of my sons. I am home enough. However, I am jealous of the respect and opportunities the full time docs in my practice have. I also feel like I work extra hard all the time to prove (to myself and others) that I am every bit as intelligent and worthy as they are. It is hard, when you have previously competed on a level playing field, to "settle for less". However, I accept that this is a choice I made. Most likely, the full timers are jealous of my schedule!

You know, what we need in order to compete equally with men in Medicine is our own wife at home to take care of all the home duties. I have heard others say that women just need to get used to hiring other people to take care of the kids, groceries, cooking, cleaning, laundry etc etc. I feel like this is a very short sighted statement! There is no way you could delegate out all of those tasks and still stay sane. And what about when your kid is having a friend problem or trouble with school work? Those things take a lot of time and energy to deal with. And a human only has so much energy to give!

Well, good luck. I think the decision whether or not to step down from full time work has to come from your heart. You can listen to other people's experiences but ultimately your life is your own. Perhaps you have sources of support that I did not. At least be glad that part time academic work is an option for you. Not everyone is that lucky!

I so agree-I often say to my husband that I need a wife. Honestly-my supervising partner wonders why I can't stay late-his wife is a SAHM cooking his dinner and packing his lunches....I would love that!! I leave to pick up three kids in three different places, get some kind of nutritious dinner on the table, and run to after school activities. And this is b/c I am the part time worker in the family.....

Oh yes! The after school activities are killing me! In some ways it is easier to work more when they are younger. They go to the same daycare provider all day (instead of having to bus to an after school program) and when you pick them up, you can relax at home as a family instead of running all over town (or to different towns to play sporting events!) Plus they go to sleep at 7:30 pm instead of 9!

Thanks for the feedback! I have to say that I really didn't respect or understand women's issue in medicine until I had kids. I don't know what the answer is until the guys are doing half the job or more, and I don't see that happening any time soon.
-As regards to "help in the home" ie nannies, housekeepers, etc. I always laugh as most don't realize (unless they are us!)that the amount of time that it takes to keep these people happy, employed and paid legally, and directed is enormous!! Its not like I write a check and then my kids are magically cared for and my house is magically cleaned. I have to spend hours (as do you) carefully vetting these people, screening them, and then directing them, watching them, etc. And then there is the taxes, workmans comp etc. Yet another drain on mommie dr time.
-As a comment, trying to survive in clinical academic medicine where you have clinical ie direct patient responsibilities is very different from research/pathology as you have these people that need you, and the very thing that makes you a better doctor (the mom impulse for a better word) is that which is going to slow you down-because I am going to spend hours on the phone/clinic with my patients. Which I am going to make the comment for those of you that are still deciding. In my view, if you are meant to be a doctor to patients (as I am) then there is no choice, but if not, then think this out carefully.
Anyways, in regards to my particular situation--"DH" "let" me go into office today to get my 2 review articles done so things are looking up, I am going to let my competition go down in flames as he is getting to wedded to drug company support recently and at some point that is going to crash, and I am just going to take care of my pts and my kids as best I can.

and ps, yes we say everyday that we need a wife!! in fact, we think that we should get divorced and then we can have this affair while the new (dumb) wife of dh takes care of this kids. although you'd have to be pretty ds (damn stupid) to get involved with dh. ha ha. and i couldn't subject my boys to that.

SAH-I always joke to my DH that polygamy doesn't seem so bad-

need dinner? Ask wife #2
childcare? wife #2
driving around to sports help? wife #2
sex? I'm not in the mood tonight honey, try wife #2!

LOL

Unless you're a Pathologist that ALSO sees patients like the one who did my thyroid biopsy.

I know academics that would rather give a lion a root canal minus anesthesia, than submit applications for grants ever year. What I've observed is that careers in medicine are much like a shell game, when going from field to field, career to career, you're simply trading one set of "problems" for another, but the "problems" NEVER go away.

Maybe this is a good time to plug the field, because when it comes to balance in a field like academic medicine, I haven't seen it all done quite as well as the Pathologists do it!