Not sure how to start this message other than by saying my marriage stinks and I don't know how to fix it! And that I'm looking for a counselor who can help us. Anyone else have advice?

Relationships are complex and there are layers to our problems. But, what rises to the top at this point is a general lack of respect by my husband. He does not support my career choice (I was not an MD when we married). Does not respect medicine in general. Hates the way my work impacts our lives. Does not want his life/career to be inconvenienced by my call schedule, my work, our children. Pressured about financial issues but somehow expects me to pay back loans while working but not so much that I can't also run the household and be the primary caregiver for our children. Yes, he put up with my medical school training/residency. But, I put up with his bitching every step of the way. Sounds like a real prince, I know.

I think the hardest part for me it communicating day to day. He is very confrontational and gets his way by yelling. Gets frustrated, then yells at me and our kids. I'm not a yeller. I talk, empathize, negotiate. I'm up at 3 am writing this because I'm so upset I can't sleep. Yesterday was my son's birthday and my husband was grouchy. My son walked up to us and said "new rule, no yelling on my birthday." I don't want to keep on living like this.

I'm bright, hardworking, a really nice person. And I am good at problem solving, finding my way through things. But I'm at a loss here. I've thought countless times about ending it but there is always that hope (for the kids and all of us) that things will be better when residency is over, after the kids reach a less demanding stage, when work settles down etc.

I know the qoute that no one can treat you without respect without you letting them. But, how does a person command respect? And do I even want it at this point? How do I get him to quit yelling? I've asked him to stop and he temporarily does, then it returns to his now normal baseline. He is such a load and I'm sick of propping him up (ie supporting his need for exercise, spending time with friends, etc) just to get him through our lives. He acts so priveledged, as if I have to apologize for bringing children and a career into our marriage and therefore disrupting his otherwise calm and perfect life.

What am I supposed to do with this?!

I am not qualified to give advice about this situation, but I just want to say (((hugs))) to you and your kids. And I agree with your son about no yelling on birthdays.

Hey there,
With all due respect, that sounds like verbal abuse. Not to mention, some economic abuse. (Yes, it exists, and is a common theme in abusive relationships.) I don't mean to come across harshly, but I'm gonna throw this out there.

I was married to an alcoholic for 11 years. It took me several years to realize there was a problem, but even longer for me to realize that there was not a damn thing I could do about it. I ultimately left. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done, but I couldn't live like that anymore. We went to 3 different counselors in 3 different cities over 8 years. He accused me of giving up.

I learned that I couldn't change him, and I couldn't make him stop drinking. I couldn't make him stop spending. I couldn't make him do ANYTHING - he had to make that decision. But I could decide what I wanted, and it was not the life I was living.

I had decided long ago that I wasn't going to be bringing any children into that marriage, and I'm very glad I didn't. No one wants to be divorced, but there are worse things than divorce. (And I am still celebrating mine - it's been final for 8 months, but took nearly a year to procure.)

I would definitely start with counseling, and I apologize for the negativity, but you're getting my very jaded view of marriage. (And mine was terrible.)

I still spend a lot of time on a support-group BB as I'm still recovering from the impact. And one of the questions frequently tossed out there is "What are YOU getting out of this marriage?" And so I pose the same to you. Marriage is supposed to be a partnership...

Just my 2c.
My story is on here somewhere in the archives. (it's a massive 8 page thread titled "Sigh, long late night" or something like that, where I came here to vent as well.)
Good luck, and I hope I didn't offend you,
Danielle

Multitasker- I am so sorry for what you are going through. It must be crazy the level of stress that you are under being a mom, physician & in this turbulent relationship. I agree with the other posters that if you want to save your marriage that you should try counseling. I just sense from your posting that there is a lot of resentment on your side and your husband's as well. This may make it harder to salvage the relationship. I suspect that your husband resents your career & thought he signed up for something different. As for the end of residency making things easier that may not be the case- some attendings work harder and longer than residents. I do think that he is being unreasonable with his expectations, but with that being said-- it is difficult being married to a physician. When I was single I never understood the men who had issues with my career & hours, but now being married to another physician who has more demanding hours than I do I can understand their perspective. I'm not saying your husband is right or that he's going about it the right way, but he may not feel that he is getting your attention & yelling may be the only way he knows how to communicate. Is he willing to see a counselor? Is he open to change? I'm sorry that you have to deal with this. Please stay strong for yourself & your children.

You poor thing. This situation reminds me of a former colleague. Husband was abusive with his power plays and in other ways (don't want to give too much detail, in case this is recognizable.) She was the doctor, mother, primary breadwinner, ran the household, while he dabbled as a business owner. He didn't like to pay taxes, so she worked her a$$ off every spring to make extra money to pay his taxes, since he didn't/wouldn't plan for that. But he was inconvenienced by her actually having to work. As a shift worker, she tried all kinds of options, nights, every other day, rapid flips to days, all sorts of variations to make him happy. Nothing made him happy. She finally gave him the boot. He put her in an impossible situation, while reaping the benefits that he would never acknowledge. He was NOT a good father, or husband, and I found him very unpleasant to be around, as many people who met him seemed to.

I hope she is happy now. It IS harder to be a woman doctor, and he made it 10x harder than it needed to be. It went on too long, since her accommodations became enabling- again the alcoholic analogy.

Hi multitasker. I am sorry your husband is not supportive of you. You are in such a hard place anyway, trying to be good mother while you are a medical resident. You deserve and need support from your most significant other. I am not saying your marriage is hopeless, only you can decide this. Counseling (individual and couples) will help you know what to do. Maybe in counseling your husband can reach a new place. Many many marriages have been saved this way. Thank you for reaching out to us. Many of us have been in the same place you are. Please keep us posted.

Multitasker - that stinks. I feel very uncomfortable talking about this subject in an unlocked forum, but... I just want to say that I think this is a huge issue for lots and lots of women in medicine (check out the stats in the book "The Medical Marriage" if you want some perspective!). The counselling idea is a great one. And in the meantime, one thing that I feel like it's easy for me to forget is that our society is surprisingly unsupportive of men who are married to someone in our profession. NOT that that excuses bad behavior, but....

Thanks everyone for the support. One day at a time.

Hey! Good to see you on here still. I have the more optimistic perspective of someone whose marriage benefited significantly from counseling. We had very different expectations of partnership, and very different communication styles... which led to a lot of conflict a lot of the time. Give that 7 years of old resentments from poor communication, and I'm sure you can imagine the dynamic that was developing. When I started med school I wasn't able to deal with the added time and stress of trying to deal with him anymore, and it just got worse.

Clearly we both had to work at the relationship - and still do - but just showing up to counseling, demonstrating that we cared enough to be there and get some advice, and really trying to understand each other and find other ways to do things made a lot of difference.

I know in some situations that won't do it, but in ours, it made a significant change. Sorry you're in this situation - but I hope it improves soon!

I do think that there are always two sides of the coin for any marriage. I know it may be hard for you to see your husband's point of view, but hopefully with counceling and better communication, you will be able to rekindle your romance and find what you two shared before.

If you are into self help books, I really like stuff by John Gottman. Pretty scientific and written for an educated audience.

Good luck to you.

Yes, there are 2 sides. But I think my problem is that I've been over-empathetic with the attempt to get him on the on the "medicine" train.

I was so excited to finally be moving ahead with school, then residency. Thought he would be excited too...maybe not for medicine...but for me! Shouldn't a partner be happy for the other??? But he never got there. And that's a long 10 years to get through together when one person doesn't buy in.

So, I'm out in practice. Actually LOVE it. So glad to be in medicine. I know it was worth it but wish I would have cut off my relationship 10 years ago and saved us both a lot of heartache.

My husband, who met me when I was premed and knew I would have a demanding career, still has a hard time with all that comes with my career sometimes. I think we have needs, and it sounds like both your husband and your needs are not being met. I wonder if you start to meet his true emotional needs he would be able to meet your needs as well?

I am an avid rock climber, and I started climbing after my husband and I were married. All of sudden, I didn't want to live in certain states and was spending a lot of my free time rock climbing. And because of my career choice, I don't have a lot of free time. But I feel so happy when I am climbing. It is really important to me. Does my husband feel happy about my discovery? No. I think if he had a choice, I would not have discovered climbing. But shouldn't he feel happy for me if he loved me? You see where I am going? I don't think that a spouse should necessarily feel happy automatically because the other person is happy--especially if that something is preventing him from feeling emotionally fulfilled. I think it is too easy to point fingers, call him unsupportive or sexist, but he is a human being with needs of his own.

Sorry if I am being annoying. I am a bit of a hopeless optimist when it comes to marriage. I wish you the best whether you decide to call it quits or try longer.

I am so glad that I found this website, I am at the hospital tonight, working a 12 hour trauma shift and it's 2:45AM. I also had an arguement with my husband that seems very similar to the original post. I am a second year resident and my husband is not in the medical field. We got married very young, before establishing our careers. Subsequently I ended up going to medschool, residency etc. and he works 5 days a week, tons of vacation and is home every day before 5pm. Today I am writing on this blog because I am also in despair about my marriage. I find that it is very difficult to balance marriage, career and motherhood especially with spouse who is not in the medical field. Right now we are broke since I am in residency and my husband does not make very much in his career, therefore getting a nanny or maid are out of the question. The majority of the disagreements stem around my husband having to pick up the slack when I am working 80+ hours a week. I physically and emotionally can't give my all at work then go home and cook, clean etc. My husband is not lazy, he likes to clean and is helpful but he is always throwing it in my face. Of course this upsets/angers me because I feel like I am doing more than enough to contribute to his and our childrens needs and comfortable life style. Now I find myself resenting him, especially when I wake up from waking up after sleeping during the day, (which is never good sleep) to neglected house hold chores, no dinner, on a friday night when he is starting his weekend and I am going to work. Weekend! What's that!?! I know I am ranting and it's probobly because I'm exhausted but I don't know how to be more patient and understanding when I feel like all I do is work. I feel like a terrible mother and wife. I think no one truly understands or appreciates what the physical, intellectual and emotional demands of being a physician unless you have been through it yourself. It is especially difficult if you are a woman because face it we are working in a man's field and any complaining about stress at home is considered a sign of weakness. It is especially difficult for me because I am 1 of 4 women in my entire residency program and I am the only one who has children. I moved to a new city for residency so I don't have any true friends that understand.

We understand, traumamama. Welcome!

You know, I totally understand where you are coming from. I felt like I am the one providing a comfortable life style for my family. Would it kill my husband to pick up what little slack there is? We have a maid service that comes every other week. We have landscapers so my husband doesn't have to mow the lawn. My mother in law watches my son while we work. Really, I can't imagine why it would be so difficult to keep an orderly house and eat home cooked meals once in a while.

Then one day, I decided that my marriage is more important than any of that. I decided that I will give up my notion of what a house is suppose to look like. I decided that if groceries rot and has to be thrown away, that is Ok too. If my I can't find any clothes to wear because laundry is not done or nothing is folded or put away, I will just have to dig for what to wear. What good would a clean house, perfectly folded laundry, and home cooked meals be without him? Doesn't my son deserve two loving parents who are not fighting all the time?

I know how annoying it is to have your spouse throw the chores he is doing at your face. I know exactly how that feels. But I found that instead of launching into how that is nothing compared to working all the time in a very stressful environment, if I simply stop and say thank you, things go over much better. They want to be appreciated as much as we do. Picking up slack for an over worked spouse cannot be easy.

I know. I know. Easier said than done, right? I just threw out a bunch of greens in the fridge that he has been promising to cook for weeks and couldn't help accusing him of letting it rot so doesn't have to cook it. When I have worked 12 hours without barely a break, and my husband has been home all day, and I call him to tell him I am famished (btw I am preggers), would it kill him to have food ready to eat? I have a hard time downing a muffin instead of complaining yet again. That is why a marriage is supposed to be a working progress, right?

Good luck to you. You are not alone.

You are not alone, Traumamama!

I appreciate every one's advice and support, I have learned and I agree that spouses need support and to feel appreciated for what they do at home. It's just hard sometimes. I think a lot also has to do with the dreaded mommy-guilt. I find that I sometimes resent my husband not only for all the time he has off but also because of all the time he has with my kids. I sometimes think that he doesn't realize that he has it made and I would change places with him in a heartbeat. I sometimes laugh at our arguements because he argues that it is so hard to take care of the kids every day, to get them ready for school help them with homework and make dinner. He has even gone so far to point out that I am not needed. It make me laugh in a cynical way because I tell him, there is nothing in this world that I would want more than to be at home to do those things for my kids. I hate myself sometimes for not being more available.

I totally hear you! My husband also wants me to show appreciation for all the work he does which includes spending time with my son. It is like asking a starving person to show appreciation for eating because gosh darn it, it is so much work to chew. But in the end, taking care of my son is a lot of work, and the fact that I feel starved for time with him doesn't change that. So I try to take a deep breath and say thank you with a smile.

Don't believe for a second that you are not needed! You are their mama! Nothing in the world will change that. And you are working hard to give them a better life. And set an example of good work ethic. They will be proud to have a mama who saves lives everyday.

You do need to communicate with your husband that comments like that are very hurtful and let him know you already have enough mommy guilt without him contributing to it...

Once again, good luck! You are expressing what so many of us go through everyday.

For me, mommy-guilt had to do with making a choice that was best for me but (at the time) was not best for my children. In the bigger picture, I know that it is best for them. But when a 2 year old is clinging to your leg sobbing and tells you he needs you more than the sick people need you....it is AWFUL.

Traumamama--yes, your spouse needs support but you also need to know it is totally normal to want to be with your children more than 15 minutes per day. My experience is that no one can know how big of a sacrifice a mommd makes until he/she has been there. And that not every mommd feels that it is a sacrifice.

traumamama.... I could copy your post and post it as my own I am third year EM, my husband works 8-3:30 every day. He does tons of the house/family chores, and despite the fact that I am SOOO jealous that he gets to be there every single night and all weekend long with our precious babies, he throws it in my face that I am not. Also makes jokes that make it seem like I am not needed. I know he appreciates me and thinks I am a good mom, but I know he doesn't get what a sacrifice this all is. I have TONS of mommy guilt. Lately I have been working a lot, and lots of evenings, and I feel so out of touch with my family. And so exhausted all the time. A big problem for us is him not understanding that 3 hours of sleep is just not enough for me. he expects me to be superhuman and will wake me up very often when I am sleeping during the day. It is frustrating, because he sleeps like a baby all night every night .....

wow-i just found the right board. (caveat-I am not a mom yet! i am a newlywed who wants to have a child, but i absolutely know these will be issues if I keep working, because they are already issues without kids.)
how can non-physician men be so insensitive?? my husband is the same way and not only does it infuriate me, it's so hurtful. he works 8-4:30 and i get the jokes about him never seeing his wife. ok, that's fine. but then when I am exhausted, and so stressed because I am trying to work and keep our house clean, he acts like I am crazy for being stressed out. 'Why are you worrying?' --well because i am the only one who does laundry, cleaning, etc! and when I ask him to do things, he will do them but only after grumbling. i don't think he knows how much the grumbling hurts. i wish i had time to just do it myself, too! I don't want to have to ask my husband to fold laundry. but if i ask, it means i really need the help. and he just doesn't get that.
and the sleep thing. i could cry over that. i HAVE cried over it!
WHY IS IT SO F_ING HARD TO COMPREHEND THAT IF I WORK ALL NIGHT I NEED TO SLEEP?????!!!! WHERE DO YOU GET OFF MAKING FUN OF ME FOR 'SLEEPING ALL THE TIME'?? I'm sorry for the caps. i just think you ladies are probably the only ones who really understand the anger there. whew! that felt good to get off my chest
needless to say. . i am hesitant to bring a child into the mix, even though i really want one. i'll be 30 in a few months. any thoughts/ advice are appreciated.

Welcome, hellorebecca! Congratulations on your recent marriage, but I'm sorry it is not very harmonious at the present time. It definitely sounds like there are some issues to be worked out before you decide whether to bring a baby into the mix, such as his contributions to domestic chores and his insensitivity (to put it mildly) about your need for sleep. Both chores and need for sleep will be even bigger issues after a baby is born, as I'm sure you know!



It sounds like you already have doubts about whether you will be able to keep working after having a child. Some of us have quit working for various periods of time to take care of children, but I can tell you that it is very difficult to go back after having quit. Professionally, it is much better to work a little bit than to quit. (And professionally, it is much better to have a supportive husband!)

If you can afford it, hire a cleaner, hire a lawn service, etc. The expense is often worth the trade in sanity, in my opinion. And counseling might not be a bad option for you 2 to get on the same page. Welcome to MomMD!

I second residentmom's suggestion- hire out whatever you can!! We work too hard. If you like to clean/care for your lawn/etc, go for it. but if not, having it taken care of can be a huge weight off an already stressed system.

I truly wish we could afford for one of us to stay home full time. I wish it was me! but my earning potential is a lot higher. My husband is a teacher with summers off, and when I am off on vacation or when he is off for the summer, life is good! Caring for a family and home is truly a full time job. Having two full time jobs (especially if one is a doctor job:) and a family is like trying to fit 3 full time jobs into a 2 adult family. I can't even begin to comprehend how single moms do it.

hellorebecca- I second someone's suggestion for counselling! that is not meant as a judgement of your relationship, as I recognize that I know nothing about your relationship from just reading your short post- but my husband and I went to counselling a few years ago and it saved our marriage. or at least it made us both overall happy in our marriage. it certainly is not perfect, but my husband did not possess the ability to see things from my perspective prior to counselling, and now he is learning to do that a bit. recently he has started to be much more supportive and understanding of my need for sleep, and even just for a little me time. I think it is great for any couple. I actually would be happy to keep going, but we just don't have time anymore. I really enjoyed the process, and the rewards for us have been substantial.

thanks for those who chimed in on my post!
you're right that we should probably go to counseling. i think we would both be a little embarassed just because we are mental health care providers ourselves--he is a psychologist who supervises a large staff, and I am a psychiatry resident. i have done individual therapy on my own but somehow it is just more humbling to admit that your marriage needs help. we will be married a year in February, and things are great when they're great (when I have lots of weekends off in a row, etc) and BAD when they're bad.
i think the best thing I can probably do for our marriage is to finish this year of residency! i am a 3rd year, and next year there is no call, it is supposedly easier than most post-residency jobs. Of course, that's also when I'd ideally like to have a baby. . but we do need to work on these communication issues first.
Given that I'm in psych, though, some of the stuff we struggle with will just be a moot point when this year is over. . .if I never want to take call again, I don't have to. I know there are only 7 months till July, but when it comes to the marriage, it can't come fast enough!
Thanks for letting me vent. It's so great to find this board.

Except for parenting a young child, when every night is a call night!

I agree. I totally don't want to be a dour voice, but... unless you're planning to cut way back on your hours at that point and are fine with doing most of the domestic work yourself... it seems unlikely to just go away. Kids just have a way of pushing even the most 50-50-workload obsessed couples away from that for quite a while, so if you're already struggling with these issues, they really might be worth hashing out now. I say from the perspective of having gone through the pre-kids to post-kids transition during my medical/residency training as well - where even with a husband who was really really determined to do his share and more, it was HARD.

I'd agree with (1) hire out anything you can afford to, and (2) try therapy! It seems like both being in mental health is actually the perfect excuse - our program (I'm also psych) pushes hard for us to try out different forms of therapy ourselves. Could you sell it as dual purpose?

Also, welcome to MomMD!! I hope you continue to weigh in!

I will say that my marriage problems came to a head once I finished residency and moved into the "real life" phase - and realized that things were broken beyond repair. We had been in counseling for years, and I am so grateful that there were no children involved when I left.

Sorry to add my 2 cents late...
I was in a very similar situation. I met my husband when I was 16. After 8 years of roller coaster dating, we married. Throughout the marriage he was embittered and difficult. He often withheld financial information regarding household bills and was annoyed regarding my schedule. He also limited my social interactions with friends and family. I had known nothing other than him, so I didn't recognize the "red flags" of domestic violence- non physical.
We had 3 children during our 8 year marriage. I was accepted into a prestigious fellowship that would open numerous doors in the prospective future. He was not supportive and tried to talk me out of taking it. I ended up moving to do my fellowship without my family (very painful). Luckily it was a commutable distance- only 2 hours or so. I was home almost every weekend and at least once during the week. Once out from under the thumb of my spouse, I realized that things were terribly wrong in our relationship. I sought counseling with and individual therapist and marriage counselor with my husband. They were all clear that unless there was a dramatic change, we would end up divorced. My husband was livid! He stopped counseling and became more immovable with his attitude towards our relationship.
I filed for divorce at the end of fellowship. He made my life a living hell for the next 2-2 1/2 years. He fought me in court for 11 months for everything- full custody of the kids, the house, alimony, & child support (he didn't win).
All that being said, I would highly recommend counseling sooner instead of later. If your spouse is uninterested or unwilling, at least get it for yourself. It may identify what issues clearly need to be dealt with vs. your reactions to things. Also, people with the type of reactions your husband has often have self-esteem issues which lead them to justify their behavior.
If you do go the route of dissolution of marriage, protect yourself- collect financial information, document important conversations, and maintain good records about interactions/finances. That type of data saved me in the end.

Hi multitasker,

I'm sorry for your situation.

Does your husband have any good traits left? What are they? What originally did you see in him when you both met that attracted you to him?

Med school and residency are incredibly hard on the best relationships. I bet, in part, your husband has been having difficulty adjusting to the "loss of you". Obviously, as you said, relationships are multi-layered and I'm sure most aspects are hard to write down and even harder to comment on in an impersonal forum.

Just the sheer challenge of raising kids is difficulty and stressful enough. Then adding med school and residency on top of that. In theory, it seems almost impossible.

Definitely agree with counseling. There may be so much resentment built up now that a neutral territory and mediator is the only way to get the communication lines open effectively.

Good luck.

Hi,
I feel your pain all too well- am in a similar situation right now (but different details as my husband is also a physician). Trying to decide whether 10 yrs of trying to "fix" this is enough, but having tremendous guilt over breaking up the family and my 2 small kids.
I highly suggest you read "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans- I think after reading it, you will agree that what you descibe is definitely abuse. She also has a follow up book called "The Verbally Abusive Man- Can He Change?". They have helped me greatly in getting some clarity after spending so long feeling like there was something I could do to change things. Both these books, and the therapist I have started seeing on my own suggest that marriage counseling is not the right move (for us) at this point, because the problem lies with him, more so than "us". If there is not an agreement on his part to make changes, marriage counseling is basically a waste of our time.
Good luck, and know that you are not alone in this misery.