Hi everyone, I'm new here and this is my first post. I've been reading through the forums and wanted to see if I could get some insight from those of you that are moms and doctors or are pursuing medicine.

To give you a little background I am 31 with a 3 1/2 year old daughter, I've been married for 5 years to an extremely supportive husband. I have been a full time student since our daughter was almost a year old and I've been a full time stay at home mom since we had her.

Up until this point I have been pursuing a bachelor of nursing degree with an interest in continuing on to a masters to be a nurse practitioner. My goal is to work with pediatric oncology patients and my husband feels that going to med school vs nursing school would give me a wider scope and allow me to have more influence over the care of my patients.

My biggest concerns are the amount of time it takes to get through med school, how much time would be taken away from my family, I refuse to have a latch key child, and whether it is really worth it.

I am only about 5 classes away from being able to apply to the nursing program, otherwise I will have at least another 2 years to finish out the medical pre reqs and the bachelors degree. I really want to be able to follow my heart and help oncology patients, but after some rough times in my marriage I've realized how important my marriage and my family is.

My husband is extremely supportive and wants me to do whatever I feel will make me happy. I'm not really considering being a doctor for the money or prestige, I just want to know that I'm making a difference in my patients lives. I debate on whether being a nurse or nurse practitioner in the oncology specilization will give me the opportunities that I'm looking for, or if pursuing med school would be better.

Our daughter would be a bit older and in school by the time I would even get to med school, but I just worry about the life balance once I would become a doctor. I would really appreciate any advice you might have.

Thanks so much for your time.

Sonseria

I

Personally, I always find it strange that things which were/are rite's of passage into adulthood for some folks, such as coming home by one's self as a responsible teenager, have the same connotation as being a potential juvenile delinquent.

Your refusal to have a latch key kid at any stage of their childhood says to me do nursing until the last one finishes high school.

Well considering that my daughter is 3 1/2 and I have absolutely no intention of having a complete stranger raising my child then I have every right to be concerned that I would be spending too much time away from home.

The problem these days is everyone is too concerned with money and not concerned enough with being a responsible parent. It's scary to see some of these stories of people having children and being doctors and their children are raised by nannies, or never see their parents, or aren't even potty trained at 5 years old. This to me is neglect. No JOB on the face of the planet is worth not being a good parent to your child. If you have no intentions of taking care of your child then you need to not have a family and focus on your career instead.

This is not to say that you cannot have a decent life/work balance, however you really need to question what is important in your life. For me it's my family. I want to help people in my career, but I am not going to scar my child in the process, nor should I be told not to attempt having a career until my child is in highschool.

My children are in full time daycare, and I happen to be interviewing nannies tomorrow. I take serious issues with the assertion that someone else is raising my four children. Yes, we have a village. But we direct how things are done, and my children know who I am. Surprisingly enough, I am not about the money either. I am a happier parent when engaged in studying towards my career goal. Some are happier at home, others at work, yet others with a bit of both. My children are not neglected; they are happy, healthy and whole.

To answer your question, you will be away from your daughter more than just the hours she is in school, even in medical school. Perhaps the first two years you could do more from home, depending on your school, but third year is 80+ hours per week, and includes overnight call, evenings, and weekends- and the exact schedule will change every 4-6 weeks, again school-dependent. That is not optional. Residency is like third year. After that, it is field-/region-/group-dependent to an extent.

If you do not want your child to ever be cared for by anyone other than you, you will need your husband to stay home full-time. Based on your strong feelings, I would suggest you look into more flexible options.

Nobody said you can't attempt having a career until your child is in high school; the fact is that medical training is incompatible with full-time (or even most-time) parenting. If you are envisioning being home at 3 PM every day for the next 14 years, don't apply to med school.

Nursing is a career, and it has much more potential for schedule control in general (although it's important to note that nursing shifts are not arranged around the school day). Based on your stated priorities it sounds like a better fit.

I appreciate the input from everyone. It's definitely a tough decision. I feel that I have a strong desire to help children in the medical field, however I don't want to feel that I am neglecting my own child. I agree that many families are able to accomidate the struggles of such an enveloping career choice. Perhaps my issues come from the fact that she is our first and only child and I am particularly protective of her.

My husband is very supportive and wants me to follow my heart and do what I think will make me happy. I've just had an extremely difficult time trying to balance decisions since we've had our daughter. I always feel that I am putting her before me no matter what I do, but I also know that I have to make a good career choice in order to be able to take care of her. It's a bit of a conundrum. I know that you can't let your life stop because you have children, but at the same time you can't be selfish and act as though you don't have any responsibility towards your children.

Thanks again for the advice.

Take Care,
Sonseria

I can never figure out what people expect to hear when they start threads like this. Like, maybe we're all gonna chime in with: medical training is AWESOME for work-life balance! You can become a doctor during nap time and still be a full-time mom! No one else will raise YOUR kid!

*sigh*

And then, you insult us with this: "you can't be selfish and act as though you don't have any responsibility towards your children".

Because that's clearly what we're all about here on mommd.

Sincerely,
Emily, who will spend 80+ hours in the ICU this week, away from my beloved son, but who is nevertheless now and forever, his mother

^LIKE.

No, wait. LOVE.

Evidently I must have hit a nerve. I think you have to remember that becoming a doctor was your decision, not anyone elses. I am not expecting to hear someone tell me that life will be a grand walk in the park and that I'll never be away from my child. We each have our callings and difficult decisions in life to make. I was simply seeking advice as to how those moms that do choose to pursue careers in medicine balance their lives with their children and spouses.

My intent was not to insult anyone. There is just a simple fact in life that not everyone that has a family is concerned with the welfare of their children. There are many people that spend more of their time away from their families than they do with them. I don't feel that this is fair to the children involved. I'm not saying that all of these people enjoy it or do it because they want to, many have no other choice and I understand that. I was trying to make the point that if your career is more important than your family then maybe you shouldn't be a parent attempting to raise children and go to medical school at the same time.

Sounds to me like you're a bit sensitive to the fact that you spend way too much time away from your child trying to balance career and family. And this is something that I am trying to decide for myself. I'm not here seeking advice so that I can ultimately insult you and everyone else here on this forum.

Oh, a troll! Fun!
I agree with Emily.
To the OP: If you want to spend all your time raising your child and never have her in any one else's care, then be a stay at home mom. That is the only position that is going to satisfy your requirements. If she turns out completely insecure because she's never been out of your sight, I would not be surprised, but to each their own. You asked us if you can be a doctor in your "free" time and dedicate yourself to your true goal, which is child raising, and the answer is an emphatic NO. Not that I think you are really asking that, but there is your answer.

OP - I think you are equating raising a child to quantity of time spent with said child instead of quality of time spent. Don't confuse the two. They are not one in the same at all.

I agree with residentmom, though. You will not be happy being a doctor. Don't do it. Stay at home with your child til they move out of the house. Be there for every single second of their life outside of school. It sounds like that is what you need to do to raise your child.

Thankfully, that is not required to raise my child well. Amazingly enough, I am not with my child every second of the day as a third-year medical student, and he is developing well and loving me heartily. I'm pretty sure I have the world's greatest kid, and he is secure that his mama loves him. I'm sorry your child is not so secure that they need you all the time. Maybe you better stay at home to work on that one with them.

Wow, troll, really? I think you should look in the mirror. This is exactly why my husband gives me the advice not to take anything that people on forums have to say seriously. Sounds to me like a group of broody women that have nothing better to do with their time than bash others and act like they're so much better than everyone else.

I would rather have a child that knows that her parents care about her well being rather than a juvenille delinquient that's pregnant at 13 because mommie and daddy could care less what she was doing with her life. Or a child that knows the nannie better than her own parents.

Wow, I love how people seem to think they know everything about my life and situation from a single post on a ridiculous forum. My daughter is not insecure, nor does she need me every moment of the day. But I can guarantee I'm not going to be a typical parent that throws the responsibility of my child's rearing upon a complete stranger that gets paid $8 an hr.

I think many of you that have posted a response are the reason that kids have so many problems these days. You are no longer willing to be mothers to your children, you want to be full time career women that want to show the man that they can be just as powerful so they throw their kids in a day care, call them well adjusted, are never home to clean the house or cook a meal. But their lives are just great. Sure they are.

Besides where do you get off telling me that my 3 year old is insecure? Get a life people. Just because I didn't put my kid in day care as soon as I could get rid of her just shows that I'm a better parent that's willing to spend more time raising my child.

I reiterate: You asked us if you could be a doctor and meet your personal need to be present for your child 100% of the time. The answer is NO.
Had you asked a more appropriate question, such as "Can I attain work-life balance, satisfying my own career aspirations while also raising a confident, well behaved, and self-sufficient young woman"... then the answer would be YES. Many of us are doing that very thing every day.

The fact that you would come on a site that is defined as "women in medicine", and declare that women who work are inadequate parents, is trolling in the extreme, and your inability to recognize that does not imply your future success in the medical field. Good luck...

You're right, the troll comment was way out of line, but then so are YOU with your offensive comments toward the Docs who took time out to respond to your question. And for the record, I'm not even close to being broody (okay maybe sometimes). And between my job as a Scientist in Pharma, studying for the MCAT, raising a teenager, and working on my cert in Bioinformatics, I've got PLENTY to do.

The response you got (minus the troll comment) was simply a reality check for how your professional goals fit with your personal goals which in this case, isn't very well if you want to be a Physician. That said, I do agree with you that some kids with professional parents and nannies probably know their nannies better than their parents, but in some cases, maybe that's not such a bad thing, LOL!!!

OP: Do yourself a favor and do not take things so personal in life. It is completely pointless to get so defensive at people in this forum just because they are giving you their opinion if you asked for it. Listen to your husband advice “not to take anything that people on forums have to say seriously”. Evidently you are taking it too seriously. Breathe!
Honestly, I don’t even know why you even bother going into “ridiculous” forums like you stated before in one of your posts.
It is not necessary to judge women in medicine, career women, single mothers, teen mothers, and hard-working mothers who have to work as hard as their husbands to make ends meet at their home while also going to school and placing their children at daycare or under the supervision of a nanny.
You should consider yourself lucky since you have the choice to stay home. But getting back to reality most of us don’t even have a choice.

Well here is the deal: Medical training involves multiple years when there is no 'balance' possible. At the very minimum, the third year of med school and between one and four years of the residency (depending on your field) will demand the vast majority of your time. During these periods, trainees with small children must lean heavily on their spouses, other family, or paid caregivers.

*If* you choose a family-friendly field, once training is over, work-life balance becomes an attainable goal. (This is totally specialty-specific.) But training is a minimum of seven years, and up to 11+ years for some specialties.

By the way, not that I know much about it but I'm imagining that the training for nursing must also involve periods of clinical duties where you can't leave at 3 PM. Is this something you've looked into at all?



Indeed there are, and if you choose to undertake medical training, you will do so also.



Then don't do it.



Um yeah, believe me every woman who has had to spend a call night away from their young child is pretty darn sensitive about it, because it is a horrible thing to have to do. There may be a lot of reasons why it will be better for one's family in the long run to complete one's training rather than throw six years and $200,000 down the toilet, but those are pretty hard to remember when one is going through it.

If you want to have a reasonable and informative conversation around here I would try very hard to stay away from that particular nerve.

See, I thought the general unavailability of part-time online medical school was common knowledge. Maybe not?

OP-
It may be that you find that helping children in the medical field and raising your daughter yourself full-time are mutually exclusive, no matter which career path you choose. From medical social worker to CNA to RN to NP to Pediatric oncologist, nearly all career paths in medicine require time away from family - if not during training, then during the medical-needs driven schedule of your chosen job (outpatient clinics aren't typically open aftere hours or on weekends, and most hospital-based jobs are shift-based and unusual/erratic hours).

Actually, many jobs outside of medicine make it hard to be a full time parent as well. Do you think you would be able to fulfill this need to help others on a volunteer basis? That would give you the flexibility you need without the commitment you can't make. I guess my point is to think about what you actually want and what options are out there that will help you fulfill it and not jeopardize your other priorities.

Good luck from a mom whose kids have been in daycare full-time since the age of six weeks and who is working the best job ever, living the dream, raising happy healthy kids who see how great it is to work hard for your dream and make it come true, and who truly is a better mom because she is a doctor too.

My first career was as a nurse. I have to say that nursing can be rough, too. Sometimes I stayed hours late to finish the care of a critical patient or attend a meeting. I worked all 3 shifts, sometimes in the same week. Sometimes my patients were dying, and I felt helpless to save them. But I kept going back every day because I loved my patients and the medicine behind it. When you work any job in healthcare, you have to do it with your heart wide open, and with the willingness to do what it takes for the people under your care. There will always be that tug between your patients and your family, no matter what professional job you have in healthcare. In medicine, this is particularly true, and you are right to take your decision seriously.




I get told a lot of crazy stuff in this field, but when someone presumes my children are being treated like garbage because of my chosen line of work, I take offense. Wouldn't you?

You know, you came here looking for advice. Not the other way around. Granted, it gets tiring to hear the same story over and over, and that generates some curt remarks.

Lashing out that no one really "knows" you from your limited posting while berating every one else's parenting choices doesn't really endear you to this forum and want us to help you. If the amount of time a mother spends with her child is an indicator alone of parenting skills, then by golly we wouldn't have serial killers with stay at home moms, then, would we?

Can we please get past this petty line of superiority on your part?

Now, you came here looking for advice, (and you do take it seriously, otherwise you wouldn't have come and stayed) and despite your attitude, I'm going to tell you the same thing I tell other people. My story is my own, and I know my mother's story, and you can get these other medical student and physician stories here as well.

You *can* have it all, but you *are* going to have to sacrifice, and the definition of "all" is going to change. Whether that sacrifice is time with your child or settling for a mid-level degree over a medical degree. My mother was a nurse who went to med school when I was a child (and being a med student now myself after a successful therapy career - I'd say I didn't turn into a juvenile delinquent, nor did my brother). She balanced her family and medical life, but there were costs. She wasn't as involved as she was when she was a nurse. She regrets that part, naturally, and we as kids got over it.

And now here I am in my mid 30's as an MS3, pregnant myself. Having been down that road, I know there are going to be sacrifices to make, that my kid will be in daycare when I'm not there, and sacrifices for my husband as well. But you know what? I had a damn good role model to show me how to get through it, and how to still raise a great kid, and I will. If you are serious about your life goals, you will find ways to make compromise too. If you can't, then being a mom and going into medicine isn't for you. Because there is NO black and white in this as a mother and a wife.

Go to nursing school. Medicine is not compatible with spend the quality time and amount of time you seem to desire. It's a no brainer IMHO.

Ouch! This puppy sure spiraled out of control!

For me, the choice to ultimately not pursue medical school was NOT because I feel that daycare/nanny etc are not a perfectly acceptable and good choice. I'm a sahm who has used kidstop during summers for extra help and my kids love it. There are a lot of great things to be said for childcare facilities. It doesn't have to be negative at all.

I personally want to experience motherhood differently than someone who is currently a medical student or resident. That doesn't make me a better mom or them a worse mom. Ultimately, it's just a choice about how we want to experience these years. I don't believe that daycare is damaging in any way at all. I just like being able to pick them up from school, go to their games, chuckle through ballet practice, etc. If I wasn't there, my children wouldn't turn out any less good ... it's really a choice about what I want for me at this phase in my life.

It's unfortunate that these discussions still turn into a parenting competition!

To the OP. I think that med school doesn't sound like a reasonable option for you right now based on what you want out of motherhood right now and how much you are willing to invest in a career. That doesn't mean that med school couldn't fit later.

Kris

Why are you spamming, Elaina? I can't believe no one has deleted your post, but clearly you are in the wrong message board. And you are annoying. That is all.

Deleted SPAM post.

I always feel that I am putting her before me no matter what I do, but I also know that I have to make a good career choice in order to be able to take care of her.


God forbid you put your child before you? Everything you say is so contradicting. FYI being a nurse you will be able to take care of her so don't act like you NEED to be a doctor to take care of her appropriately!

BTW I love Emily's post!

Hi OpheliasWings,

Wow, this is my first time on this forum and I am so glad I came upon this heated thread. When I read your post, it was like reading about my own life. I am 31 years old, and I have a 9-months old son and a wonderful husband who says he would be behind any of my career decisions as long as they make me happy. I have a BS in Business and a Master's degree in Int'l Business, but I never even worked in this field. I have always wanted to be a doctor. I have recently started a community college initially with an idea of at least becoming a nurse, but secretly hoping to get pre-med courses and prepare for MCAT. This is my first semester back and as homework becoming more demanding, doubts started creeping in.
I am constantly distracted by thoughts of all the time that studies take away from my child. I am 100% in support of your values and reasoning for not wanting to sacrifice your family for the career and seeking reassurance or some support in finding out if ANY if at all balance between Med school and family is possible.
You are absolutely right about there not being a point of having kids if we are not there to raise them! Children are our DNA, remote resemblances of us and they are attuned to their parents. They grow up emotionally disturbed if their mom (or dad, whoever is the primary care taker) is not there. For those of you who question this statement, do not worry, this is not something I made up, this comes from well researched findings from developmental psychologists (I am taking that course now and SO happy I am). According to Santrock (2010), daycare seriously lacking in the United States and children, even if they are cared for high-quality daycare are much worse off than young children growing up with their biological parents (that is given that parents are caring).
I saw some of the posts in response to Ophelias Wings and I was ashamed reading them. They are clearly written out of guilt. Yes, I do think those ladies sacrificed their children's well-being for their selfish reasons. It is much harder to sacrifice a career for some than their child, which is a new trend, it seems, among new mothers.
To OpheliasWings: I think your post was wonderful and was asking for support and advice. It did not deserve the responses it got and I think you were attacked in the way you were because of other people's insecurities about child sacrifices they made. I am in the exact same boat as you are, close at least, and I have the same doubts/dilemmas. I don't want to miss out on seeing my child grow, it is his time to develop and shine (our mothers gave us ours). At the same time career becomes also important once your child is ready to start school/pre-school.
What I think might help you is maybe look into a Physician Assistant program. Have you considered that career? Take a look at that career, it might fit your goal. I have been thinking about it, but of course I feel that I would just cut myself short of just becoming the whole - a doctor and not just the PA. However, I might just go for that for now since I am not willing to leave my child to himself at this young age. I don't know, I think it comes down to sacrificing a child or a dream of becoming a doctor and that perspective hurts :| me.
Just to add: my father is a general surgeon, so I am a former child whose dad was day and night on call. But my mom was ALWAYS there: making sure we were fed, taught, had clean clothes, did our homework, did our chores, stayed healthy, etc.. She went back to work also after staying 3 years at home (but I NEVER spent a night without my mom being home). I can't imagine if my dad and mom reversed roles at that time. I wish I had guts to study to be an MD before I met my husband and had a child, at a younger age. I would LOVE to hear a story of someone our age with children and with husbands who succeeded in balancing it all!
Thank you so much for your post!

People who "balanced it all" relied on daycare, nannies, a stay-at-home spouse, or nearby family for childcare. If you are unwilling to share childrearing with others, you cannot balance it all.

I spent every day last week up at 4:30 am studying/organizing notes, leaving for the hospital at 5:45 am, and getting home around 7pm. Guess who wasn't home with my kid? Me. My husband was.

My friend in class had to get a nanny bc her husband travels and they couldn't pick and drop off at daycare on time before it opened and closed with her as a third-year this year. So a nanny comes to their house.

You can't do this without a stay-at-home spouse, family keeping the kid, or a nanny unless you are that guy from Multiplicity and movies are suddenly real today.

"You can have it all, just not at the same time."

Quote from a conference I was at this week specific to women physicians.

I am your age- 33 with four children and in my second year of medical school. It takes a village. But I wouldn't trade it for the world. My children are happy/healthy/whole, I have a great marriage, and am following my career goals.

Every family and parent is different- what works for one individual's personality does not work for another. If you desire to be with your children at all times until they enter school and then be there before/after school- medicine is most likely not for you.