I absolutely have work-life balance and I got it by:

1) Having only one kid for a 2 high stress/demanding career family.
2) Putting off serious pursuit of med school untilI my kid got much older.
3) Working for organizations and companies that offer flexibility. Earlier this year, I quit a job paying almost 6 figures when management changed and they became strict about scheduling.

What would have helped me to have it even more? Not marrying a guy that works more than Surgeons do. I'd like to think that if I had married a teacher or a nurse I may have had 2 kids instead of one with them spaced VERY, VERY far apart, LOL!!!

I do now. I didn't when I first came to this site a few years ago, and I was wondering if anyone did.

We live in a small town with a lot of family and several close friends. I spend my mornings working PT as a psychiatrist doing inpatient consults and run a very small clinic. I spend afternoons playing with my kids and visiting family and friends. My husband is also a physician and works full-time, but his hours aren't crazy demanding because his group is big enough and the hospital is small enough (no traumas or transplants).

My husband makes the bulk of our income. I also make a pretty good salary and we both are enrolled in a loan repayment program at our hospital since we are in an underserved area. We hire out anything we can including a babysitter that comes to our home, weekly housekeeper, lawncare, painter, handyman, etc. This is also pretty easy since we live in a LCOL area.

I started medical school at age 20 and finished residency at age 29. I had my first two children while in residency, and that was difficult and I probably would have done it differently if I had it to do again. I am due with our third next week and I'm very excited about it. They are spaced very close together (oldest is 3.5).

There are times when I deal with urgent, over the phone questions and consults when I am home with my kids, and that can feel a little stressful. But overall, I am really happy with my work life and my home life right now.

Lol...I guess I did almost the opposite of Path201X, but it's working well for us.

Annie, I am pretty much exactly where you are. We struggled for a few years to get to the point we are now, but it was totally worth it. We made choices to move closer to family (but not too close!), take lower paying jobs with better hours and lifestyle, and to live somewhat below our means.

IMHO, there's no "one size fits all" when it comes to this issue. My point is to say that you can have work/life balance, doing what's ultimately best for you and your particular situation but understanding the sacrifices that go along with ANY choices made.

I'm reasonably certain that NONE of us got to this point easily and I'm sure it's also true of most women that it was a LOT harder when we all first started this juggling act.

But with time and the wisdom that hopefully goes along with it, things improve!

I have no balance. I try really hard, but I don't. Third year sucks. Being in surgery is long.

I am about to stop studying today and I am going to get some frozen yogurt with my husband and kid. I guess that is my balance today.

Sometimes I wonder if becoming an astronaut or a rocket scientist might have been easier.

I just don't think I am used to 31-hour workdays yet. That's probably it. I'm a little tired/glum today.

Why do people think being a good Scientist is easier?

I guess knowing so many Physician/Scientists combo's, and hearing their perspectives on their careers gives me different outlook about this than perhaps many other people have.

Sure medicine is "different", but from what I've heard and seen as compared to Scientific research, you simply trade one pile of crap for another. Whinning students, whining patients. Decreasing reimbursements from insurance companies, decreasing grant opportunities. Completing office paperwork at home, reading journal articles at home.

Boo-boo smells no differently than $hit to me.

If the carpool lady is on time and the babysitter doesn't bail on me and the cleaning lady remembers to show up, and no crisis at any of the kids' schools and nobody gets sick- then I sort of have balance as a part time doc in private practice. If anything breaks down, then it's pandemonium. I have been known to feed the kids Tylenol and Advil and hoping the fever stays down long enough for me to be done at work before the school calls.
It's hard because my husband works full time as an internist and is very busy (also the major breadwinner) and we have absolutely no family in the US. So whatever I can't do , we have to outsource. Add to that the additional issues of having a special needs child who needs a lot of extra one on one time and therapy, and it can get difficult to balance.

Best thing I ever did though was getting out of primary care- I couldn't have kept this work schedule in primary care. As is, I have a 100% consultative practice in endocrinology, where call is really light and I am in full control of my schedule (working 2.5 days a week). I also make a ridiculously low amount though, it really feels like I work for childcare and therapy and then it's all gone ! It's a trade off.

I can't answer for everyone but *I* think being a scientist is easier because I watch my husband do it every day and, WOW, does it look easy.



(To be fair, he's a) a physicist [= experiments are dead -- never urgent/time sensitive] and b) he works in the private sector.)

Re: balance, what does that mean, anyway?

Yeah, my brother is a PhD in Mech Engineering. He worked at one of the most famous labs in the country, invented something one of the top universities in his field now owns, and is now tenure-tracked at another university. So in all fairness, I guess I should have said professor, but even during his terrible graduate "life in the lab" days, he had charge of when he sat, ate, pooped and peed. To me that sounded pretty nice. As a third-year med student, I have pretty low standards these days.

Ladies, why are even talking about the careers of MEN, why by definition the reason they have such "perfect" work/life balance is because of US!

Geez Southern, you make 3rd year sound like being in prison! Prisoners are the ONLY folks I hear of who don't control the things you listed, LOL!!!

The physics people I know do seem far more relaxed than the biologists. Especially the theory guys - they are beyond chilled out.

But progress in the labor-intensive field of experimental biology is built on the backs of countless graduate and postdoc slaves, working inhuman hours for minimal pay. As an MD-PhD I will say that third year of med school was *way* easier than grad school for me. Even intern year at least had heavier and lighter rotations. Lab work was completely unrelenting - four years of 14-h days, and I was the slacker in my lab (and got plenty of sh!t for it from my PI). An 80-hour week is way more manageable when it contains an overnight or two and a required day off, than when it's done as 7 workdays of 11+ hours.

I totally took the easy way out by escaping to the clinic, and I sure left behind a lot of envious and disillusioned PhDs who didn't have that escape hatch. Several of them actually went to med school *after* completing their PhDs - yikes.

Work-life balance is totally achievable in clinical medicine. Academic research, not so much. If you're seeking balance you're already out of the running IMO.

So yeah, I've got balance. I got it by leaving basic research. That's my two cents.

I have found out taking one day off per week will keep me sane. Right now, I don't feel comfortable taking two days off per week financially. For some reason, I was only able to take 2 days off for the entire months of Nov and Dec. I kind of thought my group offered more flexibility, but I guess I was wrong? I am really hoping this is not going to be a trend for the future...

I wonder if I am at a place where I take 2 days off per week, I would feel balanced? At the moment, I am thankful to be able to take one day off per week and feel somewhat less that completely unbalanced.

I envy you ladies who feel that they have found balance. It is good to know such things are possible.

I find my school/work/life balance is a infinitely long continuum, constantly shifting given the variables of the moment.

Overall I am pretty happy with it- I work a few hours week, studystudystudystudy, and get to spend time with my kids. I did tear up yesterday when my son was explaining to my 6-year-old that Mom can't always be there for school things because she has lots to do with school. But they got it- my daughter immediately jumped in with- "but we can still do family movie night, right?" Quality trumps quantity in my world.

I have been struggling to find time for my research project- so it is one of those things I feel I am not doing as well with, but it will get there- hopefully over break I can get further with it. chart review >>> basic science in the continuum of flexibility.

I think working so many hours in social work (easily 60+ most weeks, usually over 70-80, while only getting paid for 40) at $11/hour reset my expectations on work/life balanace- not necessarily for the good. But nonetheless, it gives me a time to think back on where I was not happy or satisfied with what I was doing, DH and I were working opposite shifts b/c we could not afford daycare and the house payment on our very modest home, and we went to the grocery store every week with a budget of $60 to feed a family of five for the week.

Not to say there won't be dark times ahead- there most certainly will. But since entering med school, I feel like work/school/life is balanced.

Of course that feeling of balance flew out the window this week with a hugely disappointing B in a course. So. Demoralizing. But, if that is the grade I earned, so be it. I don't have the luxury to spend 18 hours/day studying- so I have to make the time I do have count. I'll get over that B, eventually.

And last, but most importantly, I have an amazing partner, who is truly in this with me. We are a team, and that is why this works.

I'm with Southern about third year of med school. Balance is simply not possible. To get through third year -- and I'm talking passing, not getting honors -- you have to work both while at school and at home, as studying for the shelf has to be done too. We work the hours of residents, but in addition have to study for exams and do assignments outside of the hospital. So it's not an 80 hour work week, it's more like a 100 hour workweek. That being said, I personally have given up on work/life balance right now. It's just about surviving, getting through the "work" part, and hoping I'll still have some time to see my son while he's young once I'm done with med school. I think work/life balance can be viewed over many years -- some years you have more "life" (ie, like when I was in graduate school) and some years are more "work" (like in med school). I think whether research or clinical work is harder depends on the individual. I felt research to be much easier because the schedule is flexible, while clinical work is an unrelenting requirement to be at work at 6 am every day, 6 days a week. At least in research times, I could sleep in a little when I was tired. I also agree that having a great team is key. My husband and I, who are both in medical school, get through it with a team of caregivers for our child. And to SW to MD -- I would not sweat a "B." For me, there have been many of those. Perfection is not possible for most mothers in medical school. Getting through it and graduating with an intact family is an accomplishment you should be very proud of. I wouldn't sweat grades lower than an A, as long as you keep on passing and getting through. Remember, P=MD.

I think this brings up an important point in this discussion.

If your first 60+ hour gig was as a medical student or resident, you probably see working hours like these very differently from those of us who have had similar schedules, for one reason or another, for a good part of our adult lives.

I'd also venture a guess that when combined with SES before med school, you'll see an even bigger difference in "intrepretation" and "feel".

Path, that's very assuming if you are inferring back to my comment (you may not be). This isn't my first 60 + hour gig. In fact, I easily worked 80 hours a week with a prior job I had making less than 10 bucks an hour when it all worked out. I actually dated my husband through that job. I hated it. There comes a time when you just want to not be at work no matter what the job is whether it is medicine or something else. I'm career changer, definitely older than my fellow peers in third-year, and medical school is NOT my first intense "work" experience. I like to have time to spend with my family outside of work. I'm content at 60 hours a week. 80 is pushing it actually. There is DEFINITELY a difference between 60 and 80. I've felt both on different rotations and compared to past jobs I've worked, and I am totally cool with 60. Not ok with 80. At least every single week indefinitely.

Why Southern? Just why?

I was referring to SW to MD's comment which is why I quoted it. If I had been specifically referring to yours, I'm sure you know my posting history well enough by now to know that I would have had NO reservations about quoting YOUR comment.

I'm a lot of things, but passive aggressive isn't one of them.

Now that I've reread your most recent comment, my previous comment doesn't even apply to you and I'm kinda disappointed you read it that way.

Fair enough. Sorry to misread. I think it is good to note, though, that whether someone has or hasn't had a real job before - no life balance and/or too many work hours for one's preference are miserable.

Ah..... I remembered something else. Weekly meal plan. (Since we are doing it now...lol)

We are still trying. Some months are better... Specifically the ones that my husband is not on inpatient, ha! I am hoping that when we both finish residency it will be easier to achieve balance. I think part time work for one or both of us will be a must because our lives as they are right now are not sustainable. There are mornings where I do wonder what I was thinking, going into medicine, and maybe I should just stay home... But I know I wouldn't be happy. Do you guys have those days? I teared up dropping my son off at daycare the other morning! Ridiculous! Is it just pregnancy hormones? I hope so!

I woke up this morning, sat on a couch, and cried. May be it's not just hormones but also exhaustion that goes with pregnancy?

What is frustrating is how my schedule seems unsustainable only to me. I know this is destructive, but I can't help feeling like my husband and my MIL are enjoying their lives off my back. God I really need a freaking day off per week. I stop thinking this nonsense and feeling jealous at my MIL if I have one day off per week. As soon as I start to work 5 days, I go crazy.

I think I need to have a little chat with my administrator who makes our schedules. I happened to be on call or post call whenever there were extra people. I am kind of afraid to commit to working part time and would prefer to take a day off when the schedule comes out. Balance? Ha. I would settle for sane right now.

I feel like everyone talks about "balance", but we never define it. Maybe all balance means is that your obligations from one sphere of life don't prevent you from fulfilling obligations from another sphere?

I also think it's helpful to think in really concrete terms, like working four days a week, instead of five. Otherwise, "balance" takes on this sort of mythical/nebulous character. For me, right now, I feel like I can adequately care for my family and myself if I a) have most weekends off and b) am home for dinner most nights. In the future, I'd like to add one free weekday per week to the mix; I think that will be enormously helpful once my dudes start elementary school.

What's interesting to me is that I give a lot of thought to how I can keep my work life from interfering excessively with my domestic life ... but I don't often turn it around and consider how to keep my domestic life from inappropriately interfering with my work life. I'm going to try to think in those terms more.

Hmm-I have work life balance. It took years to get here though. I work part time and have total control over my schedule. One full day off, three part time days and one full day. Call one in 4 weekends and 1-2 days during the week. But call is light. If I wanted it better I could take an urgent care job, no holidays and probably make more money but I like where I work. We have no famimly nearby and no live in childcare. I do the bulk of the driving for kids activities (with carpool). I have cleaning every other week. I do the rest of the cleaning (we have a dog) all of the laundry except DH's, and all of the grocery and other shopping (XMas, birthdays, etc) plus all of our travel and party planning. And I am working out 5 days a week currently. It takes a lot of organization. I also have a babysitter on weds and friday to help me after work before DH gets home.

The key for us is DH has a super flexible job. He can't work part time, but boy is his job flexible and he can work from home if it is snowy or someone is sick. Engineering is where it's at, I tell you. He makes as much as I do and has beer every Friday and free snacks at work!! And they go bowling over lunch! I don't even get a lunch except at my desk while I do charts most days!!

Part time really helped me to get a balance. I feel like I can work but I see my kids every day. And once they are all school aged, I think it will be even better since my work hours are mostly while they are in school except for Fridays. So that will be cool....I can use my day off while they are in school and the one day I get out at 12:30 to run errands and go to the gym, and will be able to be with them after school....

PS, plus, DH has a masters but came out of school at 24 with no debt and started making around 50K back then. By the time I met him he was 30 and already had an established 401K and owned a home. I had $160K in debt, a car that was falling apart, and no retirement savings!! He joked that I came with a reverse dowry!!

It might be worth mentioning that part-time for some Docs often means at least 40 hrs/week.

My part time (4 days plus call) is more like 55 hours a week.

Hmm, I'd say I work about 30 hours to 32 on average including time I have to go in on weekends for admissions. So, still part time. That does not include commuting time though.

what to do when your physician husband says he doesn't like being married to a physician?

Tell him you don't like being married to a complainer!

But seriously, that stinks. At least he said it out loud, and now you have a starting point from which you can start talking about this. Good luck, mom4. We'll listen!

For those following this post, please see my story in the women physician forum.